Obama and gun control

Devil505 wrote:These federal regulations, required to purchase a machine gun, are over & above what you need to get a state license to purchase a hand gun or rifle:

To become a registered owner, a complete FBI background investigation is conducted, checking for any criminal history or tendencies toward violence, and an application must be submitted to the BATF including two sets of fingerprints, a recent photo, a sworn affidavit that transfer of the NFA firearm is of "reasonable necessity," and that sale to and possession of the weapon by the applicant "would be consistent with public safety." The application form also requires the signature of a chief law enforcement officer with jurisdiction in the applicant's residence.

So when you said this;

coaledsweat wrote:anyone that can legally purchase a hand gun or rifle can in fact purchase a machine gun if legal in their state.

You are clearly wrong.

Nope, if you got arrested banging Miss Muffet in the back of a Chevy when you were a teenager, you will have to give them the whole story, every last detail. And each time you buy a new weapon you will have to tell the story again. The letter from the Police Chief in town, the FBI background checks, the sworn affidavit are all paperwork. You should know something about that. What it comes down to, if you want to fill out the forms, get the fingerprints and myriad of other paperwork and wait 9-12 months for some shmuck to push some paper around, then you will get for $200 a stamp that says you may go pick up the weapon you bought. I realize you can't, when they see your jacket with the arms that tie in the back, they will send you packing. How many criminals do you think will go through this crap even if they could pass? They will pop the guy with a tire iron first.

We need to get you hooked up Devil, take a ride with me to see my old buddy Don.

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/sto ... tory4.html

coaledsweat wrote:What it comes down to, if you want to fill out the forms, get the fingerprints and myriad of other paperwork and wait 9-12 months for some shmuck to push some paper around, then you will get for $200 a stamp that says you may go pick up the weapon you bought.

Point is, it is pretty easy to qualify for a state firearms license but not pass the (much more extensive) federal background field investigation & other requirements to be licensed to buy machine guns. Many people are, in fact, refused. (I have a friends in ATF & FBI that have failed applicants)

coaledsweat wrote:We need to get you hooked up Devil, take a ride with me to see my old buddy Don.

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/sto ... tory4.html

They (full auto weapons) are fun, I must admit! Most have very little "kick" to them & it's a riot to watch a group of grown men instantly turn into children with a new toy gun!!
But.....Since we were rarely attacked by "Hordes" of crazed drug dealers... .....A shotgun was the preferred weapon for us. (just way to easy to kill innocent bystanders with a full auto weapon. Surprisingly enough, that is what most LEO's fear the most........killing an innocent person.)

Devil505 wrote:Here's where we disagree. We can't limit PEOPLE in our society, but we can & do have sensible limits on weapons. (machine guns, grenade launchers, etc)
Just imagine how many more innocent kids would have been killed at Colimbine if the 2 suicidal crazies had easy access to much more lethal weapons than shotguns & semi-automatic pistols!
IMO, to argue that there should be NO restrictions on certain weapons (& thus easy access to crazies) is not a realistic answer either.

Imagine what those two little cowards would have done if they knew half the adults and maybe some of the students might have a weapon? I'll tell you what. Nothing.

Why is it that the Constitution cannot limit your "unalienable rights" which are "endowed by" your "creator" but you somehow think you, or I, or a member of Congress can?

I have the right to own whatever and however many weapons I want. And that right "SHALL NOT be infringed. Those words are neither arbitrary or vague.

Anyone who twists or tortures the document with ridiculous arguments such as "it was a different time" or "they couldn't know what the world would be like" is either ignorant or a liar. These are people who out of self preservation just declared themselves free of the worlds largest super power. They knew the consequences of being unarmed in the face of a tyrannous government.

And they tried to make sure that everyone who came after would be able to keep themselves free. And you Devil, and others, wish to remove the only defense we have.

jpete wrote:
Imagine what those two little cowards would have done if they knew half the adults and maybe some of the students might have a weapon? I'll tell you what. Nothing.

I have the right to own whatever and however many weapons I want. And that right "SHALL NOT be infringed. Those words are neither arbitrary or vague.

What he said

jpete wrote:And you Devil, and others, wish to remove the only defense we have.

You are wrong. Our BRAINS are our first & most important line of defense.

jpete wrote:Imagine what those two little cowards would have done if they knew half the adults and maybe some of the students might have a weapon? I'll tell you what. Nothing.

Now there's a comforting thought for a parent: Sending your kid to a school where all the kids are armed & a food fight will turn into a slaughter!!.....What a great idea!!

SuperBeetle wrote: Devil505 wrote:
Fair enough but that just bolsters my argument that SOME gun control is good/effective in keeping SOME very dangerous weapons (full auto) out of the hands of MOST crazies by their share lack of availability.
IF you owned one, you are reluctant to even admit it....which is wise & prudent!



So.............now you think I might be crazy

You misinterpreted my remark, which was really a compliment. My point was that not advertising the fact that a person even owns a full auto weapon is wise, in the sense of not tempting someone to break into their home & try to steal it.

You should note that while it is legal to own papered weapons, the penalty for even possessing one part of what makes a machinegun full auto (sear, bolt, reciever) without that ATF tax stamp, will get you 20 years in Levenworth. You don't want to steal a machinegun.

I have a question how many drive by or gang related shooting were committed by a legal or registered gun owner? So the crazies and wack O's already have illegal firearms and probably was not their 1st offense!!!! So I guess by law it's ok to commit a crime when there's little or no consequences or so it seems. So wouldn't it be more beneficial to bring back the death penalty to eliminate future offenses of known murders. Isn't it a fact most if not all rapists and murders when released commit the same crimes. So wouldn't it be more prudent to incarcerate a second none fatal offender life without parole and if they commit murder in prison the death penalty would be immediately carried out. These laws should be carried out with KNOWN criminals because they rarely commit the same offense once. But because most criminals intimidate or murder witness and we know it the law protects them. The constitution never ever identifies what an arm is or was because they knew the government would on day try to usurp WE THE PEOPLES rights I'd say that's a deterrent . As was mentioned in earlier posts those that have the good stuff keep it to themselves because of common sense.

Bill S.

http://www.mapartsinc.com/products.asp?catId=89 right here you can make your Remington AR-15 hunting rifle into a M-16. Have fun in jail, for about $20 you can get yourself free room and board for a long time.

Devil505 wrote:

jpete wrote:And you Devil, and others, wish to remove the only defense we have.

You are wrong. Our BRAINS are our first & most important line of defense.

Yeah, well you can THINK about your loss of freedoms. Some of us will actually fight about it.

Devil505 wrote:

jpete wrote:Imagine what those two little cowards would have done if they knew half the adults and maybe some of the students might have a weapon? I'll tell you what. Nothing.

Now there's a comforting thought for a parent: Sending your kid to a school where all the kids are armed & a food fight will turn into a slaughter!!.....What a great idea!!

If I was going to send my kid to school where I knew fire arms were present, I'd make damn sure he knew how to handle one, and damn sure he didn't run his mouth!

jpete wrote:If I was going to send my kid to school where I knew fire arms were present, I'd make damn sure he knew how to handle one, and damn sure he didn't run his mouth!

An armed society is a polite society.

Flyer5 wrote:An armed society is a polite society.

Here is the rest of that quote. It's one of my favorites.

Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
Robert A. Heinlein

I like this one too...

When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
Winston Churchill

(I am in favor of a citizen's right to own/carry firearms, but not in an unregulated way)