Refresh Technique get Reload Burning Faster ?

Refresh Technique get Reload Burning Faster ?

PostBy: Uglysquirrel On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:25 pm

This has been discussed on this forum already though maybe in not so much detail....

Been into this for a week and right now only problem is that it takes 3-4 hrs for the Harman II stovetop temp to get back up to a nice 375-425* after shaking/reload which leads me to two questions:

1) On heating the fire up prior to shake, how long do you leave the bottom door open and what stack temp increase do you like to see before shaking ? I've been limiting the stack temp increase to 60 * (infrared thermometer). This temp increase also seems pretty critical to get a quick relight of the new coal post shake. I've read some go for a 100 * stack increase prior to shaking. Appreciate comments on stack temp rises you guys go for before shake.

2) After you reload, do you immediately close the bottom door or do you leave it open for several minutes to really warm up the new coal? If you leave it open, what happens that makes you close it....a strong bed of happy dancing blues thru the new coal ?.....or do you close the bottom door immediately after reload with the draft 1.5 -3 turns open? The latter is what I'm doing with some small blues coming on in 1/2 hr and 3-4 hrs later the stove is back to temperature.

Goal is not to wait that 3-4 hrs for the stove to get warm again while not overfiring the beast. I'm thinking a stove top temp of 550* is overfire territory and I'm hoping the reload process does not get anywhere near that temp.

Thanks, Bruce
Uglysquirrel
 
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono

Re: Refresh Technique get Reload Burning Faster ?

PostBy: Dallas On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:40 pm

I don't understand this new fire tending regimen. I don't know who started it or why. The plan used to be to shake the stove down, throw some coal in, close the door and adjust the drafts to make the room the temperature that was comfortable. Done deal. In 20 minutes the stove could be out of control with the draft open. :?: Like I said, back some time ago, "fire tending seems to have gotten so complicated" :!:
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Refresh Technique get Reload Burning Faster ?

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:05 pm

Well Tom,[Dallas] obviously Bruce's [Uglysquirrel] Mark II stove and chimney are not the same as your stove and chimney.. If it was the same, then he could do as you describe and Bruce wouldn't be asking the questions he is..

Bruce,, every stove and chimney instalation is different,, your install must have fairly low draft to be so slow in recovering back to a hot fire. I think what you are doing is the right proceedure, but I also think there is no set answer for running your stove.. You are going to have to experiment and figure out what works best for your setup..

If you increase the temperature of the coal bed, it should reduce the time needed to bring the fresh coal to a full fire.. so I'd experiment with different temperature rise numbers in the flue and see if it helps..

Then I'd experiment with waiting for your own signals or indications from the coal bed before you return the stove to normal.. I'd wait till the flue temp starts to rise again.. then restore the combustion air to the fire to normal.. that is ash pan door closed, and air vent at normal setting

Whatever you do, DO NOT LEAVE THE ROOM WITH THE ASHPAN DOOR OPEN !! just close it if you need to leave the room, and open it when you return. DON'T risk a runnaway stove and a house fire!!

I do think you are running your stove near maximum,, and that you might be better off with a bigger stove.. like a Mark III or a SF250.

Greg L.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

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Re: Refresh Technique get Reload Burning Faster ?

PostBy: sharkman8810 On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:42 pm

What are your stove temps. I get much better start up of new coal if i have the stove temp (measured right over the door) at 300* or higher. Between the 200*-250* it is a much slower takeoff. The hotter the stove is running the easier it is to get the new coal going.
sharkman8810
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 82 ul
Coal Size/Type: nut
Stove/Furnace Make: hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 82 u.l.

Re: Refresh Technique get Reload Burning Faster ?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:55 am

Uglysquirrel wrote:1) On heating the fire up prior to shake, how long do you leave the bottom door open and what stack temp increase do you like to see before shaking ?


This is where experience with your particular stove makes all the difference. I don't go by stove temp...I just watch the fire....When I see the fire liven up (lively fames) is when I will shake down. After you open the ash door, this usually takes place within 5 to 10 minutes tops, depending on outside air temp. (on really warm days it may take longer due to a weaker draft)


Uglysquirrel wrote:2) After you reload, do you immediately close the bottom door or do you leave it open for several minutes to really warm up the new coal? If you leave it open, what happens that makes you close it....a strong bed of happy dancing blues thru the new coal ?.....or do you close the bottom door immediately after reload with the draft 1.5 -3 turns open? The latter is what I'm doing with some small blues coming on in 1/2 hr and 3-4 hrs later the stove is back to temperature.



Leave the ash door wide open (stay in the room) after reloading & only close the door when you see the stove temp is rising. (You don't need to wait for a particular temp, but you should make sure the temp is rising (not falling) b4 you close the ash door. If you close the ash door with a falling or steady temp, you could starve the fire of air & put it out))
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Refresh Technique get Reload Burning Faster ?

PostBy: Uglysquirrel On: Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:35 am

Guys, thanks for the sage advice, valuable lesson received here is to watch the stove temp increase post refill always with the care that the bottom door needs to be shut in a timely manner , again Deevil's egg timer as a reminder. I'm gettin the hang of this. Seeing that nice full bed of coal with a 400-425 deg top temp is when the beast is workin nice.

Not to change the subject but has anyone freshened up a fire, brushed away a inch or so of the top coal and done a infrared temp assessment ? What is the temp? I'd love to know!!!!

Brucer
Uglysquirrel
 
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono

Re: Refresh Technique get Reload Burning Faster ?

PostBy: LsFarm On: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:39 am

Most of the over the counter IR thermometers are good only for 600-900*.. I have a contact industrial probe thermometer... and I've stuck it in the red-white hot coals.. I've seen temps of 2200* and higher.. I could read a steady 2200*, and with carefull searching just above the coals, find 2400* The AFT, ash fusion temperature of most anthracite coal is 27-2800* so in a fire as hot as I was measuring,, I definitely did develope big clinkers..

My AA260 boiler regularly creates clinkers.. so I know it is really making heat when the fan is running..

Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Refresh Technique get Reload Burning Faster ?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:25 pm

Uglysquirrel wrote:Been into this for a week and right now only problem is that it takes 3-4 hrs for the Harman II stovetop temp to get back up to a nice 375-425* after shaking/reload


Missed this part of your post, first time I read it:

Faster Technique:
1. Keep your ash door open until you hit the temp you want, then close the door. (you'll need to play with the air inlet controls to find what setting will maintain your desired temp with the ash door closed)

2. If the stove still is slow heating up with the ash door open & cold outside temps, you may be shaking/packing your coal bed too tight. (coal needs good access to air to burn well.....Don't over-shake your stove or poke to much from the top)
Another possibility ,I just ran into at my daughter's house is your house is too tight & your stove is not getting enough fresh air to burn. Open a window or provide dedicated air to the stove if that' the case.

I'm guessing your ash door was closed for it to take 3-4 hours to get back to 375-425*?? (with an open ash door, good draft & loosely packed coal bed, it should take 10-15 minutes or less to get a roaring hot fire again)
Last edited by Devil505 on Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Refresh Technique get Reload Burning Faster ?

PostBy: Razzler On: Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:19 pm

Devil505 wrote:Faster Technique:
1. Keep your ash door open until you hit the temp you want, then close the door.


as Devil said this is what i do if my fire is 400* when i go to tend it. I will shake it down then load it up. At that point the temp will drop down to 150* ish, I'll leave the ash door open till the temp is back up to 400* it will have a nice glow to the fire as it did before i started. Then close the ash door set the damper for the next 12hr shift. The hole process takes 15 to 20 min.
Razzler
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman SF 250

Re: Refresh Technique get Reload Burning Faster ?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:48 pm

Razzler wrote:as Devil said this is what i do if my fire is 400* when i go to tend it. I will shake it down then load it up. At that point the temp will drop down to 150* ish, I'll leave the ash door open till the temp is back up to 400* it will have a nice glow to the fire as it did before i started. Then close the ash door set the damper for the next 12hr shift. The hole process takes 15 to 20 min.


Same for me.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Refresh Technique get Reload Burning Faster ?

PostBy: Uglysquirrel On: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:21 pm

MAN O MAN !!! a Mark II with a box filled with hot pea coal and dancing ladies in 1 hour and 5 minutes from cold !!!. You guys said to use air and in the layering phases as I was pouring in a couple inches coal on a pine (split 2 x 4's) 2x 2 fire, man it took, then closed the ash door for 5-10, then put on another couple inches to fill in the spaces between the burning wood, opened the ash door for another couple minutes until the glow started to show thru, continued with this until the coal was up to the front bricks, loaded the last ~4 " all the way and opened the ash door for a few minutes and then closed the door, the blues came in and now it's open 2 turns for the next 15-20 minutes, bring it back to 1.5 turns open and I'm done for the next 12. I DID NOT overfire the stove, just juduciously used the open ash door at critical times after throwing in a layer to get the fire hotter to kick the new coal to burn. It's a style you have to develop and I'm not done learning yet but it was a first great experience!

Thanks to the ze' Devilll and all the others you yelled (:))at me so nice to use air, just always stay with the stove, if you leave to go to the other side of the basement, start your egg timer so you don't leave the ash pan open.

Next is the art of poking a fresh fire to get rid of the thru ash !!!
Uglysquirrel
 
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono

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