$24,000 for each man woman and child.... So far.

On behalf of the banksters I would like to thank you for bailing the banksters out and making the world a safer place for them to lose money and spend yours. For the people by the people my ass.


The money that’s been pledged is equivalent to $24,000 for every man, woman and child in the country. It’s nine times what the U.S. has spent so far on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to Congressional Budget Office figures. It could pay off more than half the country’s mortgages.

“It’s unprecedented,” said Bob Eisenbeis, chief monetary economist at Vineland, New Jersey-based Cumberland Advisors Inc. and an economist for the Atlanta Fed for 10 years until January. “The backlash has begun already. Congress is taking a lot of hits from their constituents because they got snookered on the TARP big time. There’s a lot of supposedly smart people who look to be totally incompetent and it’s all going to fall on the taxpayer.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... qw8_eMzrhU

goverment should of minded their own problems and left the banks to deal with what ever happen to them. funny the treas guy was the ceo of citi. all bush and him wanted was their buddies get out with tons of cash. leave it to the taxpayers to foot the bill.

Well, since the government is determined to get their fingers into this and further dilute an already "semi-free" market economy. They should just transfer the money to the people & businesses that owe mortgages and let them pay them off so that all this "bad debt" is off the banks books. Then they should be willing to start lending to businesses again which everyone seems to be saying is the main reason for the problem. Probably cost a lot less in the long run than their current solution.

Your title for this thread needs to change a bit. So far the grand known total is just over 8 trillion dollars. More money spent they say than has been spent by the U.S. in ALL the wars since WW1. I watched the news briefly yesterday and was shocked at how they are talking about the economy, need MORE money, need prices to go UP. It has got me to thinking, why do we have salesmen as politicians ? Only a salesman would want everything to go up in price and to spend more. Everything is over priced, and even if it was half price it would still be worthless. It breaks, gets recalled, or will kill you with what it was made out of. I gave up on today and went back to yesterday. I do not buy anything new anymore except food, oil and tires. People want to make money for nothing like rock stars. Buy a Buick because Tiger Woods was given one, I don't think so. The last time I purchased something because of advertising was a coat like the one the Marlboro man wore. Man was that thing heavy but warm in those cold Michigan wind whipped winters off of the lake. My neighbors buy mowers every 5 yrs I have a Deere that is 35 yrs old and never been in the shop. I have had with cheap junk, with banks that seem to bank like a 5 yr. old would. What have we done, we sent our kids to collage to be smart not to be better thieves.

On the news last night they were talking about a bailout for....(drum roll please) the Credit card companies. These shyster bastards would give anyone credit even though they had no job or any means to pay it off. My youngest got one when he was a freshman in college. His total income was less than 3,000 a year. Fortunately I talked some sense into him and he canceled it before he could hurt himself.

They made the worst loans ever, charged interest rates that would make the mafia envious and now these pricks want a bailout. If the gov't gives it to them they should burn in hell. I'm beginning to believe our economy needs to collapse so we can cull out the morons in charge.

Yep what we need are bankers that are bankers.....like Mr Moonie from the Lucy show

The great news is that because it is all government money they are spending, that means each one of us has to pay it back. I think they should have taken it from the oil companies.

I'm thinking we will pay for it via inflation. This little bit of deflation will soon come to a close and the price of everything will start to go up.

Deflation, inflation what really happened was people wanting other people to like them. Something like this, you hired a man to tell you what your house is worth and he told you, man did they take you to the cleaners, I bet you wouldn't like him to much. But if he said here you take this paper and go to your bank and I guarantee they will give you double what you paid for it on a second mortgage, bet you might just buy him a beer, even tell the people next door to check him out. Well thats what happened put simply. We know what things are worth, our parents taught us better than this. I'm sure glad that people now days need to have a president to tell them what is what. This country has been around how long ? Glad the voting went better this time around than last time, maybe we finally learned how to do it. Cars are selling for how much ? Are you serious, come on, there still just sheet metal, motor and wheels If you don't think so just crack one up and look at it, set a cracked up 70s cars next to it bet you can't tell them apart. the scrap metal man can he will give you more for 70s piece of junk because it has more metal. Houses, man what a joke, paying a half a mill and you get plain Jane molding, for a half a mill Jane better be looking pretty good. We did this and now nobody wants to pay, well somebody will and pay dearly just watch. Oh and last but not least them good old credit cards, how many do you have, enough to make your hip hurt when you sit ? Well if you don't you better get a move on because your credit score will go down if you don't have enough crammed up your a@@. Who ever heard of such a thing, you have to have a cc to keep your score up, and I hate to laugh but they still lowered the scores for most so why keep the dang cc anyway. Used to be you went to work, saved and bought what you could afford, not what you wanted the rest of the world to think you could afford. Back to my seat in the gallery now.

they need to stop this crap.........i drive 15-25 year old cars, i heat my shop with 23-60 year old coal stoves, only reason i cook on a new stove is because i bartered some car repairs for a new stove......i bought my 4 year old computer on ebay for 100 bucks......when i need shop equipment, i shop for used first (got a 5200 dollar ac machine for 400 bucks recently) and the govt just adds up debt, and 10 trillion is no big deal to them.......people in this country need to wake the hell up and stop paying income taxes

Income tax is that what thats called I thought it was bribe money. Income tax is paid so that the infrastructure is built and taken care of. You know if every one uses it then everyone pays for it. Now this bailout money is something else seems like they have said that half of the people are in the stock market but yet we all have to put up the money to keep the money rolling in there. Now what I'm wondering is how many fathers out there are going to tell there kids to put there money in a 401k for there retirement, that it will be a safe investment. I'm not, I'm going to tell my kid to keep your mouth shut about how much you make and how much you have and to live as poor as you can until your 65.

Can you imagine if social security was invested in the stock market like the thieves (politicians) proposed a couple of years ago? This makes the social security shortfall of a couple hundred billion in 20 years look like chump change.

The advice I've given my three kids is to buy a home and get it paid for as fast as you can. Your home isn't an investment as the popular investment strategies go, it's where you live. If you own your house free and clear you can weather a job loss or disability and still have a place to sleep at night. As people are learning retirement savings can vanish in the blink of an eye.

I had a discussion about this with a loan officer years ago. He kept telling me I'm missing out on tax deductions by paying off my house early. I told him the choice is give the bank 10,000 in interest or give the government an additional 1,000 in taxes. I'll pay the government and keep my 9,000 in my pocket. He just smiled at me and didn't argue.

"Can you imagine if social security was invested in the stock market like the thieves (politicians) proposed a couple of years ago? This makes the social security shortfall of a couple hundred billion in 20 years look like chump change."

Do they really have any of our ss money put away for us? I don't think they do, they borrowed it and spent it on pork, at least if it was in the market you would still have around 60%, and that's better than zero I could be wrong on this but I am pretty sure the don't have trillions salted away for us somewhere


$24,000? Not a problem, I'm sure we all have an extra $24k kicking around for each family member. This really is not funny. This is not fixable and the long term consequences are horrible. They will get have to get it from the producers, the haves, as there is not cash coming in from the have/nots, the non producers. So based on the fact that kids add zero, retires can add very little and then you have a huge block of non working on various forms of entitlements, what does that really leave the "family of 4" to pay? A staggering amount, probably north of $200k and we have not yet bailed out Detroit or the credit card companies or the states etc. etc.

The only option left will involve wheeling around wheelbarrows loads of one hundred dollar bills to go to the grocery if we were not wisely using a credit card at the time.. Anyone live near a U.S. mint? Bet they just added a third shift and weekend hours. Seems gold must be a good investment going forward

billw wrote:I had a discussion about this with a loan officer years ago. He kept telling me I'm missing out on tax deductions by paying off my house early. I told him the choice is give the bank 10,000 in interest or give the government an additional 1,000 in taxes. I'll pay the government and keep my 9,000 in my pocket. He just smiled at me and didn't argue.

I've had this same discussion over the years with every new CPA, they all said I was crazy making extra payments and I should invest it instead. After going through 5, I finally found one who agrees with me and has helped me save more on business deductions which in turn gave me even more to pay the house off in 10 years.

The bankers don't want you to because they're losing money on interest, finacial advisors will tell you to invest it because they make money on commission and load charges. If you have a 401K or IRA you need to keep an eye on the markets and move your money before things end up like they are today. I moved mine into a IRA Money Market Account back in June, it was only paying 2.75 % and my finacial advisor said I was crazy, well my total losses are 0 when a lot of people have lost over 40%. None of these guys care about you and I, only their commissions and bonuses.

coalmeister wrote:I could be wrong on this but I am pretty sure the don't have trillions salted away for us somewhere

I'm waiting for them to tell us they ( Gov't ) need a bail out to replace OUR SS money.

Dave

it was only paying 2.75 % and my finacial advisor said I was crazy, well my total losses are 0 when a lot of people have lost over 40%.

Not trying to be snide by any means and I agree with your premise. Owe no man. Unfortunately for me I still have a mortgage, but other than that I have no debt. In the area where I live, it really is cheaper to own than to rent. Unfortunately for you that 2.75% has not been keeping up with inflation, so you are actually paying more inflation tax than your small return.

Let's have a look at inflation from the inception of this country until 2005.




Take note of how inflation remained relatively stable until the Federal Reserve took over the money supply in 1913. I hate to sound like a broken record but here we go;

*The Federal Reserve pays a 6% dividend to the member banks who are owned by U.S. citizens (Rockefeller's,ETC.) as well as foreigners (Rothschild's, ETC). It is a for profit institution that has never been audited by the U.S. government

*The reason the government can spend money like it is going out of style is because the treasury prints bonds and then sells that humble paper to the Federal Reserve for dollars. In other words the Federal reserve monetizes the debt created by the government.

*As the government goes further into debt, more dollars are created which increases inflation, the invisible tax. Most of the simpletons in Washington D.C. do not understand how money is brought into being.

*When the government spends the dollars that it just received from the Fed, to entities like, foreign countries, the military industrial complex, bailed out banks, car companies, ETC. Those entities then put that money into smaller banks that are still a part of the Federal Reserve system. Those smaller banks then are ruled by fractional reserve banking laws. In essence, fractional reserve means that the banks only have to hold a fraction of the money that they have lent out to you, the "consumer". That fraction is continuing to get smaller by the day. In this manner the banks create money out of thin air. Whenever anyone takes a loan, that in turn increases inflation. When the "consumers" can no longer to afford to take more loans the "credit freezes up" and the money supply no longer grows resulting in deflation. That is where we are today. However with the government creating money and throwing it at any large bank or car manufacturer who can offer the proper political motivations inflation should rear it's ugly, "invisible tax" head again. The banks like you to think that when you take out a loan you are borrowing another persons hard earned money but you aren't, or at least not very much.

Currently the Feds open window interest value to other banks is set at 1%. The smaller banks (by smaller I mean Citi, BoA,Wachovia on down to the smallest) borrow money from the fed at that rate when they need it in order to keep their reserves above the minimum fraction. Let's say the minimum reserve requirement is 4% of outstanding loans and a small bank has dropped to 3% reserves they must then borrow money from the fed to get back above water. That small bank pays the Fed 1% for the money it borrowed while it is charging 10% to the "consumer" (I hate that word), and paying account holders about 2%. so the bank make a nice little 7% profit on the loan.

Back to the fractional reserve system I'll let this guy explain it because he does it much better and it has visuals to help people conceptualize what is happening to this country. I'll start you off at chapter six as it strongly pertains to this conversation but you'll also have to watch chapter seven to get to the debt part and then chapter eight to understand why I rail like I do. All told it will take you about twelve minutes to understand high finance. It's so simple that you will want to puke.

http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcour ... what-money
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcour ... y-creation
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcour ... y-creation