Stove giving me problems

Re: Stove giving me problems

PostBy: LsFarm On: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:41 am

Hi Jpete, read my post in this thread: Running a MArk III low?'s

This may help..

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Stove giving me problems

PostBy: captcaper On: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:00 am

Greg

I'll have to try keeping my MPD open all the way and adjusting the BaroDamper only. I'll try anything. I don't have any problems now with burning with my new house and chimmey at all no matter what the weather has thrown at me this fall. The lowest temps have been about 10 F. and highest around 55 F. yesterday almost a record. What I don't like is when it's warm and the stove run's hotter then it has to be and the windows have to be opened. If your method can help here I'd like to hear.
And how about when one would like to get the fire hot for a while before lowering it back down will the baro open to far to keep this from happening? Won't it open as the fire gets hotter? Seems the Baro is set but you can't regulate it like a MPD. I have both by the way. I have my Baro set to open with winds of more then 10 - 15 mph. We don't have much wind here at all compared to the Cape were I use to live.
captcaper
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman Super Magnum
Stove/Furnace Model: Super Magnum Stoker

Re: Stove giving me problems

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:19 am

Getting a hand fired stove to burn very low on a warm day is almost impossible. They just aren't made to do that. The only way is to cut down the underfire air and then you get to a point where you starve the fire of air and it's done. My Mark will idle at 3/4 of a turn open on the air. If I go down to 1/2 turn I'll lose the fire. Open the windowstats.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

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Stove giving me problems

PostBy: Dallas On: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:25 am

captcaper wrote:Greg

Seems the Baro is set but you can't regulate it like a MPD. I have both by the way. I have my Baro set to open with winds of more then 10 - 15 mph.


Probably most, who pop-poo the MPD, have never had one or if they did, they didn't have a clue how to use it, but they have jumped on the band wagon. I doubt that any can give details of how it didn't work, why it didn't work or what specific problems they had with their MPD. MPD dampers can be found in nearly every hardware store and they don't have a 10 page book of instructions or cautions. Stove manufacturers say not to use them or it will "void the warranty". What does this mean? I don't know, but can only guess, it means the stove "can" run hotter, then with a barometric damper installed to govern the maximum burn in the stove.
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Stove giving me problems

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:02 pm

Tom, jpete has the same Harman I have. Without starting the MPD vs. baro debate again I will simply refer to the attached page from the Harman manual for the Mark series, specifically the paragraph with the arrow pointing to it.

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I'm not saying a MPD doesn't have a place or purpose on a coal appliance. I am saying it doesn't have a place or purpose on this coal appliance.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Stove giving me problems

PostBy: Dallas On: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:57 pm

Why do you think they put that there?
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Stove giving me problems

PostBy: LsFarm On: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:10 am

Because it's a new design stove that is airtight, it doesn't need a MPD, in fact a MPD improperly used would cause more problems than no damper at all. If it were a cast iron, multi section antique stove from the 1910's it would need a MPD to burn properly,, but airtight stoves control the air volume by the combustion air inlet,, not by choking the exit. IN the old antique stoves that could not be sealed adding a MPD was the only thing that could be done to control the fire with uncontrolable inlet combustion air around the section gaps, the metal to metal door surfaces these stove could not be put out by closing all the air vents,, there were too many built in leaks..

Modern stoves: a barometric damper to control maximum chimney draft
Antique stoves: a barometric damper with a MPD between the stove and the baro damper if the stove is so loose that it can't be controled by the air controls.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Stove giving me problems

PostBy: Dallas On: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:13 am

Oh man! Why didn't I see that? It was smacking me in the face. Of course the whole page was cautions about what not to do, in order to cover their asses.

AT EASE! Do what you feel is right.
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Stove giving me problems

PostBy: Dallas On: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:52 am

I find it strange, with the Harman Page referenced, it goes into quite a bit of detail with "a child could be burned", "a house fire could result", " A chimney fire could result", "the paint might stink, open a window", "don't install a manual pipe damper"... :?: :?: :?: Why not? Don't leave me hanging :!: Do I have to send an email to 10 people before my fire will burn :?: ... what :!: :?:
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Stove giving me problems

PostBy: captcaper On: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:36 am

The one's who wrote the Harman Manual must be the ones who designed the stove. I love the way ash pan is smaller then the grate area so the ash spilled over the sides and back and make it so you can't put the pan back in. You then have to rake it out making a mess. I tried vacuuming it out but the vacuum filter jams up so ya have to clean that. There is a lip to go over with the rake too...Nice..And the room loves the ash flying every were.This has to be done every other day at least it seems. But Harmon knows everything.
captcaper
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman Super Magnum
Stove/Furnace Model: Super Magnum Stoker

Re: Stove giving me problems

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:08 am

Uglysquirrel wrote:One thing not discussed too much is the basement chimney clean out vent, make sure the door is latched with a good seal, my door has a couple layers of duck tape over it and the surrounding concrete to ensure the baby is sealed big time, air intake at this location will lower the draft.

Hope this helps.

bruce


Good advice. I improved my stove's performance by sealing the clean-out door with duct tape, I was surprised by the amount of air leaking through it. I also sealed some leaky stovepipe joints with high-temp RTV.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Stove giving me problems

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:19 am

There is a lip to go over with the rake too...Nice..And the room loves the ash flying every were.


I use a cheap ash shovel from one of those "fireplace tool sets". It's small enough and flat so you can gently scoop up the ash. Then I gently empty it into the ash pan which I place on the floor in front of the stove.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Stove giving me problems

PostBy: JB Sparks On: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:32 am

I thought i was the only one annoid by the fact that so much ash falls outside the ash pan. Seams to me that is a dump design. Anyway i took a hoe and cut the blade in half so it easily fits in the ash pan area and also cut the handle down to about 2 1/2' to make easier to use. then i set the ash pan in front of the door on the floor and drag the ash into the pan. works good, BUT shouldn't have to do that if it was design right. And ya i screwed my vac up too by the fine ash getting through the filter.

JB
JB Sparks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman - Chubby
Stove/Furnace Model: Harman: SF160 - Chubby Sr.

Re: Stove giving me problems

PostBy: bksaun On: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:42 am

Get a fine dust filter for your vac, used for ash and drywall dust, I have used mine for 3 years now with no problems.

Got it at Home Depot.

Bk
bksaun
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Hybrid, Gentleman Janitor GJ-6RSU/ EFM 700
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 503
Coal Size/Type: Pea Stoker/Bit, Pea or Nut Anthracite
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer/ EFM-Gentleman Janitor
Stove/Furnace Model: 503 Insert/ 700/GJ-62

Re: Stove giving me problems

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:44 am

And ya i screwed my vac up too by the fine ash getting through the filter.


One day you'll vacuum up a hot ember...good-bye vacuum & maybe the house with it. :shock:

I agree the ash pan/ash door is a stupid design. On the Mark series I would think 2 deflectors on each side under the grates, mounted at a 45 degree angle would deflect the ash into the pan, but what do I know.

If you go to Harman's web page you can now navigate to a contact form to ask questions. I haven't tried it yet.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Visit Hitzer Stoves