Dump Trailers

Re: Dump Trailers

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:48 am

Yeah and you can open the tailgate at the bottom only slightly and hold its positon with chains. That way you can just drive and spread the stone evenly as you go.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Dump Trailers

PostBy: cArNaGe On: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:20 am

Berlin wrote:there's been some issues interpreting federal laws that came about a few years ago. Most states including NYS have clarified the laws on towing trailers over 10,000lbs. In NYS and most states any combination under 26K doesn't need a CDL. https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/operat ... cdl101.pdf


So the way I read that you can tow over 10,000 lbs without a CDL as long as your combination (Truck & Trailer) doesn't exceed 26,000 lbs.
cArNaGe
 

Re: Dump Trailers

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:13 am

cArNaGe wrote:
Berlin wrote:there's been some issues interpreting federal laws that came about a few years ago. Most states including NYS have clarified the laws on towing trailers over 10,000lbs. In NYS and most states any combination under 26K doesn't need a CDL. https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/operat ... cdl101.pdf


So the way I read that you can tow over 10,000 lbs without a CDL as long as your combination (Truck & Trailer) doesn't exceed 26,000 lbs.



That is the way I always saw it as well. But the trailer must be rated and registered for the weight. And you cannot exceed the rating on the hitch of the tow vehicle or the tow weight rating of the tow vehicle.
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer


Re: Dump Trailers

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:23 am

Are there realistically any combinations of pick-up trucks and dump trailers that would meet all of the nominal criteria required to legally haul 10,000 lbs. of coal, and have the power to do it while remaining at below 26,000 lbs. for the entire package?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: Dump Trailers

PostBy: Berlin On: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:34 pm

Flyer5 wrote:
cArNaGe wrote:
Berlin wrote:there's been some issues interpreting federal laws that came about a few years ago. Most states including NYS have clarified the laws on towing trailers over 10,000lbs. In NYS and most states any combination under 26K doesn't need a CDL. https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/operat ... cdl101.pdf


So the way I read that you can tow over 10,000 lbs without a CDL as long as your combination (Truck & Trailer) doesn't exceed 26,000 lbs.



That is the way I always saw it as well. But the trailer must be rated and registered for the weight. And you cannot exceed the rating on the hitch of the tow vehicle or the tow weight rating of the tow vehicle.


To be ok with the DOT, you have to be registered for proper weight and stay below 26K. Tow rating of the vehicle and hitch, while dumb to exceed (more so in the case of the hitch than the vehicle) wont' typically cause any issues w/ DOT - *in my experience, YOUR milage may vary. If you LOOK unsafe, you could have problems.

As far as trailer truck combo - 11,900 registered F-350 SRW (with air bags added) and a 14,000lbs registered dump trailer w/ either bumper pull pintle hitch rated for the weight or 5th wheel trailer/hitch. I've been close to 26,000lbs truck/trailer and load w/ my SRW '99 7.3 powerstroke. No problems w/ power or handling. You NEED good brakes, brake controller, hitch, springs, air bags, and tires. It helps to have some perf./durability mods on the engine/ transmission with that kind of weight.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Dump Trailers

PostBy: cArNaGe On: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:58 pm

So is it what you register it as or what it weighs? You registered you truck for 11,900 but it actually weighs 8,000 or so. At least mine is always under 8,000 but I have a 250 vs 350.
cArNaGe
 

Re: Dump Trailers

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:16 pm

lsayre wrote:Are there realistically any combinations of pick-up trucks and dump trailers that would meet all of the nominal criteria required to legally haul 10,000 lbs. of coal, and have the power to do it while remaining at below 26,000 lbs. for the entire package?


There are plenty of affordable tow vehicles out there that are designed to tow 10,000 Lbs. That's slightly different than your question, the coal in the trailer would have to be just less than 4 ton to allow for the tare weight of a 10,000 Lb trailer. Tow vehicles: For instance Ford's '09 F-150 with the Max Tow package was rated to tow a 11,200 Lb gross vehicle weight (GVW)trailer. IIRC, that would register at ~9,000 Lbs. That's considered a puppy truck by many ;) You'd need a weight distributing hitch to keep the trailer's tongue weight in spec for the truck's hitch. A set of Timbren SES for the rear axle helps (not as HD as Berlin's airbags). I like to follow the recommendation to keep a little load in the bed too, say 500 Lbs for an F-150 with the loaded trailer. Everything will be nice and level and will handle and break well too. You end up with ~ 4 ton haul and stay ~ 17,000 Lb combined. No match for Berlins haul :D
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Dump Trailers

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:46 am

I'm jumping in late but... I do have a dump trailer. Hawke 6x12, 10,000lb. Great addition to my collection, keeps the truck from getting beat before it's time.

On to towing,

In Pa. 10,000lbs. is the most you are legally allowed to put behind your vehicle (tow) with a class c non-cdl license. This goes for the registered GVW of the trailer. Even if the trailer is empty when you get stopped but is registered for 14k lbs. you can still get in a big mess. Now this only applies to you if you are using the truck and trailer for financial gain. There is something called doing acts of husbandry ie. Rv's, towing the family tractor, hauling a load of coal etc.

Lets just say you have... A John Deere 110 TLB, on a 24k lbs gooseneck behind your truck, with Joe Blows Excavation painted on the door. Now you fall into CDL teritory because you are now using said vehicle to earn money. You'd better have a CDL class A with a current Medical card or you are in deep poop.

There are some very gray areas pertaining to the 10k ll rule in towing. Most of the questions cannot even be answered by the men that are enforcing the rules :roll: Me, before I got my CDL... I always stayed under 10k when towing. Never once did I have an issue, but DOT has been out beating on the little guy lately for some reason. Revenue?
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Dump Trailers

PostBy: lsayre On: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:05 pm

Wanna Bee wrote:In Pa. 10,000lbs. is the most you are legally allowed to put behind your vehicle (tow) with a class c non-cdl license.


Is that 10,000 lbs. limit for only the load, or is it for the weight of the load plus the weight of the trailer it is being hauled in?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: Dump Trailers

PostBy: KLook On: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:24 pm

In Pa. 10,000lbs. is the most you are legally allowed to put behind your vehicle (tow) with a class c non-cdl license. This goes for the registered GVW of the trailer. Even if the trailer is empty when you get stopped but is registered for 14k lbs. you can still get in a big mess. Now this only applies to you if you are using the truck and trailer for financial gain. There is something called doing acts of husbandry ie. Rv's, towing the family tractor, hauling a load of coal etc.

Lets just say you have... A John Deere 110 TLB, on a 24k lbs gooseneck behind your truck, with Joe Blows Excavation painted on the door. Now you fall into CDL teritory because you are now using said vehicle to earn money. You'd better have a CDL class A with a current Medical card or you are in deep poop.

There are some very gray areas pertaining to the 10k ll rule in towing. Most of the questions cannot even be answered by the men that are enforcing the rules :roll: Me, before I got my CDL... I always stayed under 10k when towing. Never once did I have an issue, but DOT has been out beating on the little guy lately for some reason. Revenue?


That is what my brother ran into in Maine a couple years back. He was towing a flatbed with pintle hook on his new 1 ton dually dump bed GMC. The trailer was empty as he was going after his John Deer at the dealership. The DOT trooper said he knew he was overloaded just towing the trailer! He was cited for no medical certificate, no log, overweight (empty) and having beer in the cab( he had passed through Sams Club in Bangor and stocked up on many things), and a couple other things. As it turned out, he was right and he was wrong. The trooper didnt know what he was talking about either. He was on a farm plate, he was within his registration for weight, he didn't need a log or medical certificate, but could not have the beer as it was a "business" trip. When he set out to get the tractor, it determined that it was a business trip so he could not be efficient and combine it with a shopping trip in Bangor. Mind you, all the beers were full and just setting there, but illegal. Crazy world these days.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Dump Trailers

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:28 pm

lsayre wrote:
Wanna Bee wrote:In Pa. 10,000lbs. is the most you are legally allowed to put behind your vehicle (tow) with a class c non-cdl license.


Is that 10,000 lbs. limit for only the load, or is it for the weight of the load plus the weight of the trailer it is being hauled in?


Total weight on the trailer tires. Remember 10-15% of your towed weight needs to be transferred onto the tow vehicle for proper handling.
Sooo.... your 10k lb trailer could actually weight 11,000lbs loaded
hook it to the tow vehicle and 1,500lbs is now transferred into tongue weight.
Ahhh... you say now I only have 9,500lbs on the trailer tires and am well inside the law and the designed capacities of my trailer.

You would legally be towing 9,500 lbs in this scenario.
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Dump Trailers

PostBy: Yanche On: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:47 am

Wanna Bee wrote:
lsayre wrote:
Wanna Bee wrote:In Pa. 10,000lbs. is the most you are legally allowed to put behind your vehicle (tow) with a class c non-cdl license.


Is that 10,000 lbs. limit for only the load, or is it for the weight of the load plus the weight of the trailer it is being hauled in?


Total weight on the trailer tires. Remember 10-15% of your towed weight needs to be transferred onto the tow vehicle for proper handling.
Sooo.... your 10k lb trailer could actually weight 11,000lbs loaded
hook it to the tow vehicle and 1,500lbs is now transferred into tongue weight.
Ahhh... you say now I only have 9,500lbs on the trailer tires and am well inside the law and the designed capacities of my trailer.

You would legally be towing 9,500 lbs in this scenario.

You are correct, but the Maryland state cops tell me, they could ask you to disconnect the trailer and weigh it and the tow vehicle separately. Then you would be over weight. They also tell me it would be extremely rare to do so. Only done when they want to "throw the book at you".
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Dump Trailers

PostBy: Berlin On: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:52 am

Here's what has to be understood, the federal gov't forced states to change their laws in the mid 2000's. This change made it legal for ANY combination under 26k (provided your vehicles are registered properly) if you're non-commercial. This means that you can tow a trailer over 10k IF your combination isn't over 26k and you're registered for the weight IF you're non-commercial with a standard drivers licence. The "commercial" or "conducting business" etc. is where it gets tricky for you and the DOT.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Dump Trailers

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:54 am

Berlin wrote:Here's what has to be understood, the federal gov't forced states to change their laws in the mid 2000's. This change made it legal for ANY combination under 26k (provided your vehicles are registered properly) if you're non-commercial. This means that you can tow a trailer over 10k IF your combination isn't over 26k and you're registered for the weight IF you're non-commercial with a standard drivers licence. The "commercial" or "conducting business" etc. is where it gets tricky for you and the DOT.


I'm not so sure about this,
from Pa
CLASS A (minimum age 18): Required to operate any combination of vehicles with a gross weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, where the vehicle(s) being towed is/are in excess of 10,000 pounds. Example: Recreational Vehicle, when the towing vehicle is rated at 11,000 pounds and the vehicle towed is rated at 15,500 pounds (total combination weight of 26,500 pounds).
CLASS B (minimum age 18): Required to operate any single vehicle rated in excess of 26,000 pounds. Example: Motor homes rated at 26,001 pounds or more.
CLASS C (minimum age 16): A Class C driver’s license will be issued to persons 16 years of age or older, who have demonstrated their qualifications to operate any vehicles, except those requiring a Class M qualification, and who do not meet the definitions of Class A or Class B. Any firefighter or member of a rescue or emergency squad who is the holder of a Class C driver’s license and who has a certificate of authorization from a fire chief or head of the rescue or emergency squad will be authorized to operate any fire or emergency vehicle registered to that fire department, rescue or emergency squad or municipality(emergency use only). The holder of a Class C license is authorized to drive a motor-driven cycle with an automatic transmission and cylinder capacity of 50 CCs or less or a 3-wheeled motorcycle with an enclosed cab.

from NY
•Operator, Class D: Issued to drivers age 18 or over, or to drivers age 17 with Driver Education. Valid for passenger cars and trucks with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,000 lbs. or less. A Class D driver can drive a vehicle that tows another vehicle (for example a trailer) that has a maximum gross weight of 10,000 lbs. or less. A Class D driver can tow a vehicle with a GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs only if the combined weight rating of the two vehicles is 26,000 lbs. or less. See the important information about changes for Class D drivers that result from a law that eliminates the Non-CDL Class C license.

Never were allowed to tow more than 10k lbs with a "normal" license.

CDL on the other hand is the same in every state.
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Dump Trailers

PostBy: Berlin On: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:10 pm

Read the second to the last sentence in what you posted about NYS.

I believe penn and most (if not all) other states are basically the same- any combination under 26k if not for commercial purposes with a standard licence IF the vehicles are registered for the weight <---don't forget that last bit.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal