My koker and the Coal Trol Bad combo?

My koker and the Coal Trol Bad combo?

PostBy: extreme915 On: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:17 pm

I recently encountered some problems with my Coal Trol unit and my convection blower.
It started about 2 weeks ago. I have only has the unit for 9 months and 4 of them been summer and it was not run.
What happened was the motor seized and would get extremely hot to the touch, also a strong burning smell throughout the house.

What i cant seem to understand is why I was supplied with a coal trol that has a 3 amp max(this is labeled on the black box that all my motors plug into) for the convection fan plug ,it also is making my convection fan run at multi-speeds. And the convection fan (Dayton 5c091c supplied from keystoker) which is a 4 amp motor and is also 1 speed motor.


On Friday I had to go to my dealer and get a new convection fan (The windings were fried, burning smell and seized). They replaced it with a (Dayton) 1xjx8 it is also a 1 speed motor and 4.9 amps.


I was told by my keystoker dealer I was the 3rd convection fan problem with the Coal trol. He also told me he never replaced one on a fan limit switch.


To sum it up,
Someone made a mistake and I had to shell out $70 for a fan limit and not to count the added aggravation. Keystoker totally dismisses it and told me they sell thousands and never had a problem. Automation Correct sent me a updated thermostat but i can not see that fixing this issue. I should be reimbursed for the switch plus the time i was without heat. I didn’t spend $3000 for my Koker to have problems in less then 1 year of operation. I do understand things happen but stand behind your product and fix the issue and inform the customers who have purchased these so it can be fixed and avoided.

What I also want to know is how you can control a 1 speed motor to go different speeds? Voltage? Amperage ? Ohms ? Hz? Or is it impossible with out eventually frying the motor. When i get a voltage reading from my unit it is only 60 volts. Half of what is required to run my fan. But I get 115 volts form my combustion blower. I am really disgusted confused and want some answers! :!: :mad:
extreme915
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker Koker

Re: My koker and the Coal Trol Bad combo?

PostBy: Matthaus On: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:24 am

You need to talk with the folks at Automation Correct about the method for controlling speed, I assure you it is an excellent method and does not harm a shaded pole motor. I have over 3 years of time on various stoves with Coal-Trols and nary an issue with the convection fans. However neither of your fans are shaded pole motors as near as I can tell, so again you need to discuss this with the folks at AC, I assure you they will help you any way they can.

I did a search on those two blowers, the one you had originally is no longer available: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/pr ... submit.y=6
The other is similar and has the same temp requirements:
http://www.grainger.com/product/1XJX8

I would think that one possible cause of the issue is the size of the motor, if the Coal-Trol is limited to a 3 amp output then why is it provided on a new stove with a 4 amp and then a 4.9 amp fan?
One other possible issue is that it is only rated for 104*F ambient temp and at lower speeds it is possible that the cooling provided by the squirrel cage is insufficient to maintain proper motor temps. If it were my stove I would measure the temp of the fan while in operation and if it exceeds the temp then I would ask the dealer for a solution (aux cooling fan or other). If it turns out a fan limit is needed to prevent the plenum from exceeding a certain temp, then Keystoker should provide that.

Don't get too discouraged, and never give up till the situation is solved to your satisfaction. :)
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

Re: My koker and the Coal Trol Bad combo?

PostBy: WNY On: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:28 am

Some of the larger blowers cannot be speed controlled, the Coaltrol can only control certain types of motors (Shaded pole, etc..), it the motor is not made to be speed controlled, it may work a while, but may burn up.

The coal trol can be fitted with external contacts for a remote relay to control furnance blowers motors (more amps).
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: My koker and the Coal Trol Bad combo?

PostBy: extreme915 On: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:11 pm

What action should I take from here. Should i take the chance and hook it back up to the coal trol. Because I really like the way it controls my unit . But i dont want to have the same problem I had last time.
extreme915
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker Koker

Re: My koker and the Coal Trol Bad combo?

PostBy: Matthaus On: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:21 pm

If Neal or Paul at AC tells you that the design is OK for that size and type of motor then I would hook it back up and keep tabs on the motor temp.
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

Re: My koker and the Coal Trol Bad combo?

PostBy: pvolcko On: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:29 pm

Do not hook a 4+ Amp motor up to the convection output. For large blowers like that we recommend use of a limit switch. If your Coal-trol is outfitted with a dry contact pad then that in conjunction with a relay and power supply could also be used to control it, however most don't have these contacts (you would have had to special order them or get the Advanced system from us) and the limit switch is the best way to go in that case.
pvolcko
 

Re: My koker and the Coal Trol Bad combo?

PostBy: extreme915 On: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:57 pm

I ordered my coal trol from the factory with my stove. It should have been properly outfitted. I am going to call keystoker tommorrow with this information. They should supply me with the unit that is made to run it with the Coal Trol .
extreme915
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker Koker

Re: My koker and the Coal Trol Bad combo?

PostBy: jrn8265 On: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:25 am

Interesting, I have a koker on order with a coaltrol....wonder if I'll have the same issue.....seems crazy that they would even plug the 4+ amp blower into the coaltrol unit......your right......I would push them for resolutions and reinbursement starting with Keystoker!
jrn8265
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker Koker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker 160

Re: My koker and the Coal Trol Bad combo?

PostBy: extreme915 On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:30 pm

I just wanted to update you on this topic.I wanted to see if the guys from automation correct were right and hook my convection fan back to the coal trol and set the cfm to 40 on th tstat.i hooked back up to the and they were correct i have been using it that way now for 3 months and no overheating issues.To do this you need the v3 updated tstat. i am glad this worked because it is much better control then a fan limit switch.Thank you automation correct. :D :!:
extreme915
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker Koker

Re: My koker and the Coal Trol Bad combo?

PostBy: pvolcko On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:41 pm

Thanks for posting the update. Good to hear things are working well for you. :)
pvolcko