Ford vs Toyota

Ford vs Toyota

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:19 pm

A Modern Parable.

A Japanese company (Toyota) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.

They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.

The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India .

Sadly, the End.

Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US . The last quarter's results:

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.

Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses... and now wants the Government to 'bail them out'.

IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY
coalkirk
 
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Re: Ford vs Toyota

PostBy: mozz On: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:56 pm

Chances are if any of the 3 big ones survive, it will be Ford. Chevy can't even put decent light bulbs in their cars, 1 or 2 years old and i see them going down the road with burnt out bulbs. All the time, no brake light at all on many many trailblazers. Also door problems and stalling with trailblazers for example. My friend with a chevy van venture? has had one problem after another, power window motors and switches, wiper motor, broken sway bar. Now Dodge i guess aren't as bad but they still have paint fade issues for the past 15 or more years and their bumpers rot off the trucks. I am prejudiced because i like my fords but i also have 2 Japanese vehicles. Built in japan vehicles. The cheapness (plastic) does not appear to be as outright as with american vehicles but they have their own set of problems, undercoating, frame rust, body mount rust. Friend with a nissan truck has gone through 3 rear differentials, but he drives it hard 5.6 dohc.
mozz
 
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Re: Ford vs Toyota

PostBy: WNY On: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:24 pm

Read about this guy....


Taiichi Ohno (?? ??, Ohno Taiichi?, February 29, 1912 - May 28, 1990) is considered to be the father of the Toyota Production System, also known as Lean Manufacturing. He wrote several books about the system, the most popular of which is Toyota Production System: Beyond Large-Scale Production. Born in Dalian, China, and a graduate of the Nagoya Technical High School, he was an employee first of the Toyoda family's Toyoda Spinning, then moved to the motor company in 1943, and gradually rose through the ranks to become an executive. In what is considered to be a slight, possibly because he spoke publicly about the production system, he was denied the normal executive track and was sent instead to consult with suppliers in his later career

Ohno was sent to the Ford Rouge plant in 1936 to study what at the time was called Fordism. Henry Ford intended to Rouge to be the next step in mass production in that parts and raw materials were to be consumed only as needed. Sadly, by 1936, Ford was a bit senile and handed control to Harry Bennett. However, Bennett ran was a marvel of corruption, inefficiency and brutality. Ohno took notes about all the "flaws" he saw in the Ford system and came up with a system that is presently the standard of the world. TPS (Toyota Production System) or Lean Manufacturing.

The whole idea of Toyota Production System are first, produce as the market demand and eliminate all unnecessary wastes throughout the production process to maximize the profit.

--------------

Probably 10+ years ago, everyone now wants to jump on the bandwagon of Lean Manufacturing, just in time ordering, etc...
WNY
 
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Re: Ford vs Toyota

PostBy: mozz On: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:47 pm

I get sick of lean, have to hear it every single day at work. LSS, Lean six sigma. We are not a production facility in the sense but this is pushed down our throats each day. What happens is this, they want to do a lean event in our shop, save sq ft, save foot travel, save parts, order only when its needed, don't overwork, don't underwork etc.etc. Heres what really happens, shop leader goes around and throws stuff out. So all those parts you were hoarding because they never come in, take months to come in, or the part orders get canceled by someone in managment whom probably has never seen the parts, they all get thrown out. Then the shop leader wants everything labeled. So get out the labelmaker and type " file cabinet" " coffee maker" "stapler" so anytime anyone comes into the shop, they can see that this new ergonomically correct paper holder is a " file cabinet". The old one got thrown out last year, along with 3 legged chairs which were not safe, then it was the 4 legged chairs are not safe, with 5 legs, throw them out, order new ones with 5 legs and electrostatic discharge safe. This is then repeated for every toolbox, printer,workstation, rack, vidmar, manual, computer etc.etc. We then score a 100% on our lean audit. Then in the next issue of our employee newspaper, we are the role model for all shops to follow as we scored 100. And we saved millions of dollars, gained 1000's of ft of work space, reduced unnecessary walking, reduced millions in unused inventory. If you dare ask them where or how they are going to spend all the millions they saved, you won't get an answer, because the money does not exist, only on paper. Then next time you have to work on a unit you find out all the parts, new, spare, and used, are all thrown out in the dumpster. But we are lean. And this cycle repeats itself. Oh, did i say i work for the DOD us govt.
mozz
 
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Re: Ford vs Toyota

PostBy: Freddy On: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:20 pm

Click this link, on the bottom left, click "Durability". I'd think that anyone that sees this will never buy a Toyota truck.


http://www.fordvehicles.com/2009f150/
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
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Re: Ford vs Toyota

PostBy: Robby On: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:33 pm

Don't know much about Ford, but bought my Mom a Toyota Rav4. We bought two Toyota's at once on that one, FIRST & LAST. Mother was 74 years old then, that car broke everywhere there is something to break. Cost her/us $3600.00 to drive that piece of *%$* 75000 miles. Now she has a JEEP Liberty. She like and I like, cause I don't have to be taking it to be fixed weekly. The poor bugger that bought it after us tracked us down to try and go after Toyota. I doubt he got very far.



Robby
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Re: Ford vs Toyota

PostBy: eelhc On: Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:39 am

Freddy wrote:Click this link, on the bottom left, click "Durability". I'd think that anyone that sees this will never buy a Toyota truck.


http://www.fordvehicles.com/2009f150/
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Hmmm... Maybe Toyota should buy Ford (which BTW you might as well call the F150 truck company).

This is now how many attempts with the Tundra? The third? Toyota and Nissan... they just don't "get" the truck market. Got to give them credit though... If this were the big 3, they'd given up after the first attempt.

IMHO the reliability thing is a bit outdated. The Big 3 are basically as good as any these days (certainly better than the Europeans) and American cars/trucks have always been more durable. I've owned 3 American, 3 German and 2 Japanese cars and my preference is for American or European cars. The best car I've ever owned is American and the one I presently drive (Cadillac SRX - LOVE this car). That said... My dream car these days is the Nissan GT-R. 0-60 in under 3.5 with 2 sets of golf clubs in the truck.
eelhc
 
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Re: Ford vs Toyota

PostBy: stovepipemike On: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:05 am

When I started working there was an old welder [all codes certified] in the shop that bought a brand new big block Dodge station wagon.Being the lowest paid dude in the shop at that time ,I was always concerned about dollars. I asked him how many M.P.G.did he get. He said "kid,when you get to my age you don't care about that %^&* anymore,you only care if it burns it all and keeps moving once you put it in there. He is beginning to make more sense all the time. Dependability is paramount.
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Re: Ford vs Toyota

PostBy: steveyrock On: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:33 pm

I was a Ford truck guy all my life untill the last two, a 1997 and a 2001.Those two trucks were pure disapointment,that 5.4 is a roach.They got alot of nerve putting that motor in a F-250 Super Duty,mine was a complete dog towing up a grade and gas milage was only 14 mpg.I now have a GMC 2500 HD with the 6.0 Vortec and thats a motor with some scwoop.I swore I would lite fire to that Ford but I needed the trade in,if I were a rich man I would have relished burning that truck to the ground.
steveyrock
 

Re: Ford vs Toyota

PostBy: mike On: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:04 pm

I always had strictly Chrysler products with the exception of the 1996 Caprice beater that I own now. The old tired Dodge trucks that I had when I was a little younger did break down from time to time and wernt the best on gas BUT the all had close to or over 200k when I got them and I bet the balls of them so I couldn't complain. My 2006 1500 Ram has went well above the call of duty more than once, well into diesel dually teritory really and it doesnt even have a Hemi. I have 70k on it in two years and the only thing I have done to it is a U Joint and a power steering pump. I have had that truck close to 12000 lbs going across the scale and have the weigh slips to prove it on more than one occasion. My only complaint is the lousy customer service from local dealership who has since went out of buisness :lol: The other thing that I get a chuckle from is when people look at my car and say that has to be bad on gas. I get 20-21 mpg easy with the Caprice. Now that might not sound that great but when you look at some of the small imports that only get 30ish mpg and take into account that the Caprice has a full frame, a V8, and can cruise at 80 with 6 people and all there luggage and compare the weight and size of the Caprice to the weight and size of say a KIA all of a sudden 21 mpg is pretty good isn't it?
mike
 
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Re: Ford vs Toyota

PostBy: coalmeister On: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:44 pm

Don't forget the UAW wrench turners on the line making thirty bucks an hour with full pay even with layoff, with a $50k annual retirement and lifetime free healthcare.

I know of a parts plant (they make those finned things on the front of your car that water goes through) that had up to 400 employees at a time just sweeping the floors or drinking coffee and reading the paper in the lunch room because the company was forced to employee a certain number of people. So, they do no efficiency upgrades as it will save them no money. Their German transplant competitor (Bosch) is crushing them with technology and robots. How sad, greed from top to bottom destroys an American icon. And it is repeated over and over across the nation.
coalmeister
 
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Re: Ford vs Toyota

PostBy: SMITTY On: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:23 pm

Freddy wrote:Click this link, on the bottom left, click "Durability". I'd think that anyone that sees this will never buy a Toyota truck.


http://www.fordvehicles.com/2009f150/
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.



That was a GREAT vid!! I know that is definitely real-world because my Chevy ( the exact same one they used in the test -- think it's the same color too ) behaves exactly as it did in that video over big bumps like that at speed. It handles far better than any vehicle I have ever owned in my life, so the sideways action don't bother me. ;)

That's the first time I've seen the ' 09's -- MINT!! Best looking ones yet! How ironic it is that I finally like all the new trucks coming out these last 2 model years & now the companies are on the brink of falling into the shitter. :(
SMITTY
 
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Re: Ford vs Toyota

PostBy: e.alleg On: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:54 am

great story! I owned many Toyota's and also American cars. I'm a master auto tech so that should eliminate all the bullshit service dept. problems that they caused. Here's my take on the matter: my '92 Camry 4 door 4 cyl. automatic went 120,000 miles with no problems whatsoever. I changed the oil and filter every 10,000 miles with Mobil1 synthetic. I changed the front brake pads and rotors once, the tires once. At 120k I was going to replace the plugs/wires/timing belt but the car was wrecked. The crash was a 70 mile an hour T-bone and nobody in the Camry was hurt, the car was built solid. I had a '87 Toyota Supra turbo 5speed manual, 250k miles and no breakdowns until the 200k mile mark, then the sunroof quit, the electric shocks quit, the oil leaks were pretty bad, had some other problems, that was also built like a tank but I wrecked it and not only walked away but drove it home. It was another 70mph t-bone and the Nissan I hit was totaled. Not bad for a 20 year old car. My present car is a 1997 Camry 6cyl, this car is built a lot cheaper than my '92 was. The ignition key tumbler broke at 50k miles leaving me stranded, the factory alarm quit at 75k miles leaving me stranded, the egr valve quit at 120k miles, the struts and springs completely wore out by 120k miles. I have 200k on it now and it is used as a winter beater. I guess it held up OK considering I towed with it monthly since day one. The body is solid and it hasn't rusted. I had a 1997 Grand Caravan. At 180k miles the van was completely worn out and rusted out, it cost me about $2500 a year in parts. Residual value was $300 and 3 months later the van was in the junk yard. I bought a almost new 2007 Grand Caravan. I have 40k miles on it. The tires have been replaced, the brakes have been replaced, the tie-rods, ball joints, wheel bearings have been replaced, the engine leaks oil. The Grand Caravan was cheaper to buy but I predict it will cost me more in 5 years than if I had just spent the extra and got a Toyota van.
e.alleg
 
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Re: Ford vs Toyota

PostBy: gambler On: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:07 pm

e.alleg man, you have got to quit running into stuff. :lol:
gambler
 
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Re: Ford vs Toyota

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:06 pm

Toyota in Scotland.
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