GM opens 8th plant in CHINA!?

Thank god for Bush.

Dec. 17 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. opened its eighth vehicle plant in China and said it had no plans for adding further capacity amid slowing demand in Asia's biggest auto market.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=asia

one more reason not to buy gm products
i'm glad i fix and restore older cars for a living......job security baby!

lincolnmania wrote:one more reason not to buy gm products
i'm glad i fix and restore older cars for a living......job security baby!

And What FORD Does not have any Plants in China Please

"GM, the biggest overseas automaker in China, is counting on emerging markets and U.S. aid to help it survive a plunge in North American sales. The Detroit-based automaker expects to sell as many as 1.2 million vehicles in China next year, Wale said on Dec."

I sure am glad Mr Bush decided to give them the money they said they needed...Now I know they really need it....It takes lots a money to build plants in the land that is stealing our jobs away with slave labor Bend over once again US TAXPAYER AND TAKE IT AGAIN!!!
I need a new truck and I think I will go look at a Ford !!!
If this isnt bad enough our beloved NY govenor wants to nail us $1.12 a six pack tax on a damn bottle of Pepsi

Ford didn't take a bailout. Coming from my perspective, the government is not supposed to be mixed up in the free markets. The depression of 1873 is probably a better model of what is happening today but Washington is trying to play the FDR model.

Other New Deal programs destroyed jobs, too. For example, the National Industrial Recovery Act (1933) cut back production and forced wages above market levels, making it more expensive for employers to hire people - blacks alone were estimated to have lost some 500,000 jobs because of the National Industrial Recovery Act. The Agricultural Adjustment Act (1933) cut back farm production and devastated black tenant farmers who needed work. The National Labor Relations Act (1935) gave unions monopoly bargaining power in workplaces and led to violent strikes and compulsory unionization of mass production industries. Unions secured above-market wages, triggering big layoffs and helping to usher in the depression of 1938.

What about the good supposedly done by New Deal spending programs? These didn't increase the number of jobs in the economy, because the money spent on New Deal projects came from taxpayers who consequently had less money to spend on food, coats, cars, books and other things that would have stimulated the economy. This is a classic case of the seen versus the unseen -- we can see the jobs created by New Deal spending, but we cannot see jobs destroyed by New Deal taxing.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3357

5. Why did FDR destroy all that food when millions were hungry? FDR promoted higher food prices by paying farmers to plow under some 10 million acres of crops and slaughter and discard some six million farm animals. The food destruction program mainly benefited big farmers, since they had more food to destroy than small farmers. This policy and subsequent programs to pay farmers for not producing victimized the 100 million Americans who were consumers.

6. Why did FDR make everything more expensive during the Depression? Americans needed bargains, but FDR signed the National Industrial Recovery Act to establish some 700 industrial cartel codes that forced consumers to pay above-market prices for goods and services. Moreover, he banned discounting by signing the Anti-Chain Store Act (1936) and the Retail Price Maintenance Act (1937).

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/powell-jim1.html

The problems had emerged around 1870, starting in Europe. In the Austro-Hungarian Empire, formed in 1867, in the states unified by Prussia into the German empire, and in France, the emperors supported a flowering of new lending institutions that issued mortgages for municipal and residential construction, especially in the capitals of Vienna, Berlin, and Paris. Mortgages were easier to obtain than before, and a building boom commenced. Land values seemed to climb and climb; borrowers ravenously assumed more and more credit, using unbuilt or half-built houses as collateral. The most marvelous spots for sightseers in the three cities today are the magisterial buildings erected in the so-called founder period.

But the economic fundamentals were shaky. Wheat exporters from Russia and Central Europe faced a new international competitor who drastically undersold them. The 19th-century version of containers manufactured in China and bound for Wal-Mart consisted of produce from farmers in the American Midwest. They used grain elevators, conveyer belts, and massive steam ships to export trainloads of wheat to abroad. Britain, the biggest importer of wheat, shifted to the cheap stuff quite suddenly around 1871. By 1872 kerosene and manufactured food were rocketing out of America's heartland, undermining rapeseed, flour, and beef prices. The crash came in Central Europe in May 1873, as it became clear that the region's assumptions about continual economic growth were too optimistic. Europeans faced what they came to
call the American Commercial Invasion. A new industrial superpower had arrived, one whose low costs threatened European trade and a European way of life.

http://chronicle.com/temp/reprint.php?i ... 4hy9z83x18

Financial troubles aside why would you look at this as a bad thing? It's a U.S company opening a plant in a overseas country to sell cars there, they aren't shipping them back here. Why do you think Toyota, Honda and all the rest build plants here? Because its cheaper than shipping them across the ocean. If you want to penetrate a foreign overseas market with a product like a car you have to build them over there.

The way I view it it's hard to put the financial troubles aside. It is an example of how they can't move forward and provide a energy efficient well designed car that would make them healthier as a company in this market.
I heard this week they want to shelve the development of the Volt since they didn't get the bailout money initially. Maybe they backed off that since Uncle GWB started printing more money for them. I think it was just an excuse because they had problems with their battery design they couldn't solve and were building a car that was not as sophisticated as the Prius and cost $40k so nobody was going to buy it. I am also guessing the emissions requirements for the cars they are building for China are not as strict as here so they're probably trotting out an old design.

My conclusion is if they cannot build a car to compete in this market, then go out of business in this market and only build cars for the Chinese market....just don't take my money to pretend to try to stay in business here. Even if they get this bailout money, I fully expect them to be back begging for more in about 6 months.

titleist1 wrote:The way I view it it's hard to put the financial troubles aside.

I agree, they are a bunch of diots with a very bad business plan but it appears to me that everyone has an issue with this because the plant was built in China. It wasn't built there to ship jobs overseas but because its the only way to be competitive in that market.

Where & when did you hear of the Volt being shelved?

Nov 7 2008:

Some of you may have noticed a story posted elsewhere on the interwebs late last evening about the Chevy Volt. As the story goes, a friend of a friend of a friend, etc told the writer that the Volt program was being put on indefinite hold due to the company's money troubles. With GM releasing its third quarter results in a couple of hours and a huge loss expected, virtually every program at GM is being cut back or delayed. The one exception to that (so far at least) remains the Volt. We checked with the primary spokesman for the Volt program at GM Rob Peterson first thing this morning on this rumor. Peterson tells us that "there's no truth in that statement whatsoever." So the Volt remains on track but GM is expected to announce some other big cuts this morning including lay offs among engineering staff (not related to the E-Flex program).

[Sources: General Motors, Jalopnik]

Richard S. wrote:Financial troubles aside why would you look at this as a bad thing?

The biggest problem that I see with bailing these companies out is that you are rewarding stupidity. Being stupid should be painful. Now I'll certainly admit that I would not want to be the CEO of any of the big three but when you are making an eight figure salary you probably shouldn't drive your company into the ground. To be honest, even with the previous sentence I can not fathom any CEO of a publicly traded company being worth eight figures. Here's the facts.

http://www.thekarmareport.com/auto-cris ... ankruptcy/

Restructuring might have required the sale of that GM plant to china and it might have gotten rid of some of that eight figure dead weight but it wouldn't have resulted in the inflation that is getting ready to rear its head again... Well, happen if they can get people to take loans and banks that will make loans.

If you think American automakers dont produce parts for cars to be sold in America read this.

http://www.trucktrend.com/features/news ... index.html

And this

http://biz.yahoo.com/nytimes/080327/119 ... html?.v=18

Our country is at a cross roads. We are no longer represented by politicians with our best interists at heart. They have their own interists and wallets at heart. Most of them anyway.

Take them all Republican or Democrat who really gets it anymore when it comes to real people trying to make it work in the greatest country ever to live in?

Living here is like hitting the lotto I will admit. However in the ever increasing Global market. Average Americans will have their lifestyle reduced to be more like the average person in the Global economy.

Get ready for more Americans to be closer to a lower standard of living and More Chineese people doing alittle better. And a small percentage of super rich getting more super rich.

Who here has better benifits than their parents had? What happened to a defined pension form your employer? An affordable Medical plan by your employer? We all take less and less and what changes?

We get less and less and pay more and more in taxes.

Each and every sector has lost... Benifits that were part of our pay are now gone and have been converted into profit. All sector that is except the Government sector. Im sure every politician still has a pension and health benifits paid for by us but not enjoyed by us. Take that away and see how far we get.

Read this repeteadly until it makes sence.>>> Taxation without representation.

I am proud to be an American and ashamed of what my government has become.

I also think I should stick to burning coal at least I can understand that..... kinda

On the China thing:

My Silverado was build in Canada with Canadian & American parts. From what I've seen crawling under my truck, & from taking things apart for accessory installation, & looking at various tags & labels on parts, my trucks cosmetic parts are mostly built in Canada, while the drivetrain & engine were built in the USA, with final assembly in Oshawa, Ontario Canada. My VIN starts with a "2" -- If your GM starts with a "1", then it was built in the USA. I would have rather bought one built here, but I like what I like & it was on the lot at the right time. It's still a Chevy, built by GM.

I don't think fuel efficiency is the entire reason for GM's failure. That argument may apply to the econo-box & teenage kid market, but not to their trucks, performance, & luxury markets. You think a guy out in Iowa who wakes up at 3AM & uses his brand-new Chevy (that replaced his 30 year old Chevy) to put food on his family's table, gives a *censored* about mileage? Or the yuppie in Boston commuting to his 6-figure salary job in his Caddilac? (Or me? ) The vehicle needs to get the job done, regardless of what that job is -- bottom line.

I personally have no interest whatsoever in a fuel-efficient vehicle, & neither does anyone I know, with the exception of 2 relatives who "coincidently" voted for Obama. Most everyone I've talked to that drives foreign, did so because GM's are big $$$ when compared to imports. I probably could have bought a Toyota or Nissan for $10,000 less than I paid for mine, but there's so many things I just don't like about foreign trucks -- ride quality, interior parts quality, & looks being my biggest issues. Gm's ride better & are quieter inside than most comparable foreign cars/trucks, in my opinion. My mom has a Honda Civic, brand new & you can feel every little marble in the road ( but it gets great mileage! ) Little cars aren't the answer to everything. As far as trucks go, test drive a Chevy pickup after a Toyota pickup & compare ride quality -- I think you'll form the same opinion. Bigger IS better in that department. As far as the old "reliability myth" that foreign vehicle owners perpetuate to justify their purchase ( was true in the 80's -- not so much now ), I'd put mine up against ANY foreign vehicle. If it's mechanical, it WILL break sooner or later, regardless of where it's built. I'm at 24,600 miles & I DON'T slow down for bumps in the road, I DON'T slow for turns, & I mash the pedal to the floor on just about every start, 7 days a week & get 15mpg out of a 5,500 lb. vehicle. (as a side note, I drove my '94 with 266,000 miles on it the same way). The biggest issue I've had so far is the seat belt mounts on the ceiling rattle. If it were up to me, the truck wouldn't have seat belts anyway.

Gm knows it would never sell a vehicle here that was built in China. At least I would hope it knows!

hit wrong button

Smitty,

I'm not sure what you do with your truck but I'll give you a rundown on what we do with ours at work. I work in an open pit mine. We use Chevy 3/4 tons to pull trail cable for the shovels, among other things. I honestly can not think of a better proving ground for any kind of truck. We spend a good portion of the day in four wheel drive. The older Chevys were not perfect by any means but they did the job. I would not doubt that the mine spends about $150,000 on each truck by the time it is retired around 80,000 miles to include parts labor and the cost of the truck it's self. Transfer cases are one of the biggest issue with CV joints running a close second and fuel/air sensors running third. The older trucks held up fairly well until wet weather hit, the wet weather is particularly harsh on the trucks. The mine just replaced the trucks with brand new Chevys, not a one of which has more than 2500 miles on them. three of the four have already been in the shop for electronics related engine problems. There are eyes on the front end instead of hooks and there is no way to get a clevis on those eyes due to the close quarters in that area. One of the guys actually put a strap on the plastic junk blocking the eyes and just ripped it off of the truck. Another truck was left idling in the pit by an operator and ran out of gas. Because there was no way to hook on to those eyes on the front we towed it to the shop backwards (we would have to go to the shop anyway for a jerry can might as well just take the whole truck). Anyway the truck freaked out and shut it's self down electronically because we towed it backwards... Yes the transfer case was in neutral. The truck had to go to the shop to be reset. I wish the company would try some of the new fords so I could see if they are as bad, but these new Chevys are junk compared to the older ones. Just too many electronics (and tattle tales log when you abuse the truck so goodbye to warranty coverage) and bad design ideas to call the new chevys a work truck. One last gripe, they sit lower to the ground that the older Chevys.

Freddy wrote:Where & when did you hear of the Volt being shelved?

I heard it earlier this week after the Senate killed the bailout. I was in the truck listening to NPR, I don't remember which day. It came across to me as sour grapes from the GM CEO. I heard today (I was doing my part to help the economy recover by Christmas shopping) that he backed off that statement, apparently a couple billions dollars has the power to change ones mind!! Now I have to go recover from the massive headache that christmas shopping and fighting the crowds and mall traffic has given me.