combustion fans

combustion fans

PostBy: newtocoal On: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:55 am

I have a Hyfire II with power vent. I have 12' of pipe before the vent. My problem is when both sides are on my damper closes completely with vent on high and no matter where the setting is on the damper. I thought it might be too far for the piping to run but I thought it was twenty feet max?
newtocoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: LL
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II

Re: combustion fans

PostBy: WNY On: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:33 am

You mean your baro damper closes? when you are running both burners? Weird, it should open when it starts getting more draft to maintain the correct draft on the stove.

You probalby have too much or too little draft and your baro damper is NOT setup correctly. Have you calibrated it with a Draft Gauge (manometer), that is a must.

Which Damper do you have? Field Controls RC? Is the weight on the RIGHT Side if mounted vertically and where is the weight set? If it's too heavy, it will not open.

You have to adjust your draft accurately with the Power Vent and adjust the baro accordingly, Some put a rheostat on the power vent to slow it down a bit, some are Way too powerful.

If you have a pic of your piping and baro, we can get you setup correctly.
WNY
 
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Re: combustion fans

PostBy: newtocoal On: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:45 am

I will take some pictures but it doesn't matter how the damper is set up it shuts tight. It is a rc model with weight to the right on the vertical. It works perfectly with one side burnng but as soon as the other combustion motor is plugged in it closes the damper.
newtocoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: LL
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II

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Re: combustion fans

PostBy: WNY On: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:59 am

It may be pressurizing your pipe if it closing off the baro, the Power vent may not be pulling enough air thru from the stove and you may not have enough draft.

Is your PV on a rheostat? Have you cleaned it lately?

Have you calibrated your system with a Draft Gauge when everything is running Hot. You should check your draft of your stove when you have both burners running and adjust your PV accordingly. I think there is some adjustment plate on the PV for this.
WNY
 
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Re: combustion fans

PostBy: gambler On: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:01 pm

Are you sure the combustion fan on the one side is not running backwards somehow (squirrel cage on the shaft backwards). Does it matter which side is burning first? Try switching which side you light first and then try switching combustion fans. For the baro to slam shut like that it almost seems like the extra combustion fan is creating a down draft in the chimney. Try opening a window also. Your stove may not be getting enough air and sucking flue gas down the chimney.

edit: just noticed the power vent but open the window and try any how.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: combustion fans

PostBy: newtocoal On: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:11 pm

Tried both side and it doesn't matter which one is on or off it does the same thing. I will clean the power vent again and see what happens . I took the screen off last week and cleaned the unit but it seemed to have gotten worse. Now that I am thinking about it maybe when I pulled the fin forward to pull the screen off, maybe I didn't push it back into position far enough and it is drawing fresh air in and blocking the gas exit. Hopefully that simple. I was thinking it might need more air but it sit in a very big room and I leave the basement door open to the upstairs.
newtocoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: LL
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II

Re: combustion fans

PostBy: WNY On: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:50 pm

Could be the power vent, something is not setup correctly and not pulling a good vacuum on your stove to overcome the extra draft created when the second burner/blower is going. I don';t have PV, but I know with both burners running, I get way more draft and the baro opens quite far, sometimes it stays 1/3-1/2+ open all the time and still pushing .04-.05 on the draft gauge. When it really cold, the baro is almost wide open.

YOU really need to hook a draft gauge and see what it actually doing in the pipe, if it is getting pressurized, you could be getting CO leaking out the Baro, NOT a good idea.
WNY
 
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Re: combustion fans

PostBy: newtocoal On: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:52 pm

Here are some pictures of my set up . Originally I had it with a 90 when it came out of the stove then a 90 to the pv. I replaced with 45's to cut down on length of pipe but it has not worked. With one burner going the pv is only running a little more than half speed but it will not correct with both going. Pv seems to be running fine.
I picked up this meter as well and any help with hooking it up would be great.
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newtocoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: LL
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II

Re: combustion fans

PostBy: newtocoal On: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:55 pm

A few more pictures.
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newtocoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: LL
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II

Re: combustion fans

PostBy: Jerry & Karen On: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:34 pm

Hi,
I notice that this is a older stove, have you been running it with the PV since 2004 and not have a problem ? When using a PV, you can go as far as 28' , but you must remember that every elbow is counted as 11'. So right off the bat you have 22' of run just from your elbows. Try to move the stove closer to the PV exit.
Also, when operating one burner you are sending 45 CFM's of air into the stove, turning on the second burner now doubles the air input. If you send in more air, you inturn must vent more air. This is why your baro closes. Not enough draft.
Good Luck,
Jerry LLS
Jerry & Karen
 

Re: combustion fans

PostBy: newtocoal On: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:10 pm

Jerry, this is the stove I bought from the dealer down in Mass. that you recomended. When I bought the stove in Nov. it came with no manuals or video. You sent me the warranty , and video information(thank you). I had no idea it was an older stove until now. Your dealer represented it as new and sold it with the power venter as well. I don't know what the difference is between this and a new one so I am kind of stuck. I do know he charged me new price so I am not feeling too good about this whole purchase from the beginning.
I will move the stove closer.
I guess a little knowledge goes a long way.
newtocoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: LL
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II

Re: combustion fans

PostBy: jpen1 On: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:59 pm

Hopefully jerry will comment further but I agree with him the stove is to far from the venter but I believe youhave another issue . I believe there should be cover plates for your combustion blowers. Most people have there cover plates about half way closed at least to start.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
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Re: combustion fans

PostBy: newtocoal On: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:20 pm

I was hoping Jerry would respond as well. Like I said, I am new to this and thought I had a new stove. That is why I changed to 45"s thinking it would help the air flow. The total length of pipe is @ 13' and I will move it closer to the wall. This is still going to leave me with atleast 9' of pipe by the time I get the clearance off the wall and keep the pipe off the back of the stove. Then there will be 2 90's and I thought that would be restricting the flow.
Thanks for the help. I have one side burning now and it is keeping my house @68 on the first floor and 65 on second. 2500sq' not bad I thought. Suppose to get really cold so we will see how soon it has to be moved.
Thanks again.
newtocoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: LL
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II

Re: combustion fans

PostBy: gambler On: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:01 pm

jpen1 wrote: I believe there should be cover plates for your combustion blowers. Most people have there cover plates about half way closed at least to start.


I know for a fact (because I asked this same question of Jerry) That the only LL stove that uses a restrictor plate is the econo model.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: combustion fans

PostBy: Matthaus On: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:46 am

A couple things based on my three years experience using SWG PVs on LL, Alaska, Harman and Keystoker stoves.

1. Remove the manual damper in the PV if it is still installed, just collect fly ash and causes an issue if partially closed.
2. measure your draft, didn't see any actual readings, then measure your over fire draft by drilling a small hole in the front of the stove between the two doors. If the pipe draft is -.04" WC then the over fire draft should be -.02" ofr more. If you don't achieve this then use aluminum tape to partially cover the fan inlets on the combustion fans.

Also one observation, with the baro mounted at an angle the weight is no longer accurate, so just use the manometer to adjust the draft and forget where the weight is. If for some reason you can't achieve -.04" WC draft in the flue ppe then you need to check and make sure the rheostat on the PV is working properly, try plugging the PV into the wall directly and see if the draft increases.

Also does yours setup have a WM01 PV safety switch, if not shut it down and get one installed immediately. I know all LL stoves come with a CO detector, make sure you have one by the stove and several outside your sleeping areas.
Matthaus
 
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