Can Obama pull it off

Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:17 am

Well put stockingfull, I think that Obama has the best prospect of turning things around but it won`t be a quick or easy task.
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: av8r On: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:40 am

samhill wrote:Well put stockingfull, I think that Obama has the best prospect of turning things around but it won`t be a quick or easy task.


Can you elaborate on your opinion? Does he have the best chance because you think it can't get any worse or is there something in his plan that you feel is noteworthy?
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:37 pm

I think it can & probably will get worse, we`re on a downward spiral. I hope I`m wrong but I don`t believe we`ve seen bottom yet. I do think he has picked the right people to help us climb out & that he is able to be honest & straight forward with people and to also listen & discuss before making a decision.
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:26 pm

samhill wrote:I think it can & probably will get worse, we`re on a downward spiral. I hope I`m wrong but I don`t believe we`ve seen bottom yet. I do think he has picked the right people to help us climb out & that he is able to be honest & straight forward with people and to also listen & discuss before making a decision.


Which people?

The chief of staff who's parents are terrorists?

The Treasury Secretary who doesn't pay his taxes?

The Commerce Secretary nominee that's taking kickbacks?

The CIA chief who has no law enforcement experience?

With that Dream Team, how can we miss?
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:38 pm

stockingfull wrote:Aw hell, I'll go further, since the S/N ratio won't be adversely affected for the ostriches on the board. :whistle:

This mess was created by an under-regulated "free" market, which fostered rapacious greed that ultimately took the form of bizarre "tranches" and even abject ponzi-scheme stealing. While I don't think that environment was created by Congress, it can fairly be said that Congress did little to stop it. (Nor could it, really, with veto threats and the modern 60-vote Senate.)

But all of that happened way before Obama got to D.C.; it started with the "de-industrialization" of America in Reagan's time. Now we call it "globalization," which is market-speak for "we don't build anything anymore."

That "free market" party's over. That you can be sure Obama will indeed "pull off."


How the hell did you get this so wrong? We haven't seen a "free market" for at least 100 years. And Henry Ford was probably the last capitalist. The last several years have been the product too much government regulation and then not making sure anyone was following those regulations. It's a toxic mix of people playing by the rules and being penalized and people skirting the rules and being rewarded.

People get caught in Ponzi schemes(other than SS) because they trust their government's regulations and that Chris Cox over at the SEC was enforcing those regulations.

Government is ALWAYS the problem and the REAL "Free Market" is the solution. Not this pseudo-free market we operate under now.
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: stockingfull On: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:05 pm

Sure, the problem has been too much regulation. Open it up completely, that's the ticket! :punk:

:secret: Ever heard of Herbert Hoover?
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:28 pm

stockingfull wrote:Sure, the problem has been too much regulation. Open it up completely, that's the ticket! :punk:

:secret: Ever heard of Herbert Hoover?


Wasn't even close to "free" market.
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: stockingfull On: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:37 pm

Martin Van Buren? 8-)
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:44 pm

He's already starting to "Pull it Off"



Obama halts all regulations pending review
Order goes out Tuesday afternoon, shortly after inauguration

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/28758810/?GT1=43001
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:14 pm

Devil505 wrote:He's already starting to "Pull it Off"



Obama halts all regulations pending review
Order goes out Tuesday afternoon, shortly after inauguration

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/28758810/?GT1=43001


Nothing special there. GWB reversed a whole bunch of Clinton's stuff. Then they made a rule that the next president couldn't go back more then 3 months. GWB ramrodded a bunch of stuff through 4 months ago. :D
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:16 pm

jpete wrote:Nothing special there.


Agreed....But it's a start in the right direction! (more exactly...the left!) :lol:
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:59 am

What do you think Obama can "pull off"?

The only thing he can pull off is more and more regulation which is why we are here in the first place. Government wants to solve all our problems but it has created most of them. The housing bubble is a case in point. Democrats and Republicans alike wanted to increase home ownership. The problem with that is that it is a contrivance. Yep. It violates the laws of economics. There are limited resources in this world and not everyone will have the American dream. It's not my law. It's the law of nature.

To put everyone in a house the feds did the following against free market considerations:

1. they increased the money supply wildly (MZM)

2. They lowered fed funds rates and kept them artificially low to encourage interbank liquidity and commercial lending

3. They guaranteed 70% of the mortgages outstanding with Fannie and Freddy effectively dissallowing failure and encouraging wild speculation.

4. The community reinvestment act strong-armed banks to lend against prudent practices. banks then sought to minimize risks by using untested swap instruments and securitization techniques to spread their increasing risk. The feds led the way to foster use of these unnatural and complicated hybrids.

5. Risk was fostered by blurring the distinctions between banking, investment banking, brokerages, and insurance (btw banking is fully within the realm of government regulation--that is the only non-free market provision that should be taken.)Once introduced to the new rules of free-wheeled lending, banks stepped on the accelerator to make more and more money with the ok of the feds.

6. new accounting rules were imposed by the congress in a knee-jerk to the Enron scandal which actually caused impaired derivatives to be marked-to-market causing a chain reaction of credit defaults triggering the settlements of credit default swap instruments. The underlying hard assets were real estate for which demand was falling due to liquidations in reponse to credit defaults, causing a further downward spiral in all commodities and financial instruments as positions were liquidated to satisfy swap claims.

It was overregulation that caused this Real estate market bubble and the resulting financial crisis with plenty of blame to go around to all politicians.
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:03 am

mikeandgerry wrote:The only thing he can pull off is more and more regulation which is why we are here in the first place.


You are EXACTLY wrong here Mike & almost everyone now admits that it was the LACK of effective Congressional & Justice Dept OVERSIGHT that let corporate greed run the country for the last 8 years & that one of even John McCain's sudden epiphanys was the need for MORE oversight, not less. Obama will allow referees back into the game!
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:37 pm

Mike's thesis is interesting but the question is: Why were all those steps taken?

What happened was that, once this intellectual exercise of "globalization" got started, back in Reagan's time, our factories got moved offshore for the cheap labor, we stopped making things (so we had nothing to sell in order to generate real wealth) and then we had to invent the "ownership society" and gin-up progressively crazier financing schemes in order to create phony demand in the housing market. At the end, we had unqualified buyers paying puff-pastry prices for an over-built supply of houses. (Oh, and way too many are energy-pig McMansions.) Big surprise that there was a crash.

But the notion that this happened because of "over-regulation," or that de-regulation would have been or is that answer to it, is absolute insanity. The very term "crash" has its origins in what happens when people realize that the party's over in unregulated markets. They all try to get out at the same time, the liquidity isn't there, the paper quickly becomes worthless, businesses shutter, people lose their jobs, they can't pay their taxes, there's nobody to buy their foreclosed homes, and pretty soon people are stealing food.

You want less-regulation? The Oct 1929 crash happened in a day. The Oct 1987 crash happened in an afternoon. Without controls over "program-trading," a "crash" these days could happen in a couple minutes, far faster than anybody here could get their money out. And that would be a good thing? :hammer:

You guys who want less regulation are living in a dream world. You should take the shock absorbers off your cars; they'll ride better. :roll:
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:00 pm

Devil505 wrote:
mikeandgerry wrote:The only thing he can pull off is more and more regulation which is why we are here in the first place.


You are EXACTLY wrong here Mike & almost everyone now admits that it was the LACK of effective Congressional & Justice Dept OVERSIGHT that let corporate greed run the country for the last 8 years & that one of even John McCain's sudden epiphanys was the need for MORE oversight, not less. Obama will allow referees back into the game!


I am exactly right and anyone who thinks we have an underregulated economy must be a democrat. (McCain should be one because he acts like one 95% of the time).

Everytime there is a crisis, government does what it does best.....make another law or regulation. We have one of the most highly regulated economies in the world. I am a small business man and MOST of my time is spent in compliance. I am looking to get out of business because it just isn't worth it anymore. I spend too much time and take too much risk capital trying to earn 50 % more than I could earn in the govt sector.

For the record, I cannot stand huge corporations. But the public should understand that their job is to be greedy. It is that greed that provides good paying jobs to Americans. It is that greed that provides the best products at the lowest prices. Certainly they must be regulated but, we don't have an under-regulated economy. Unbridled capitalism is as harsh as communism. But regulations are not lacking in our economy. Character is lacking in management and government leadership. That is a failing of society and government both. You cannot regulate character. Character must be built by society over a long period of time. Conversely, it takes a long time to destroy it, but we have succeeded.

A society with strength and character needs no written laws. What do we have?
mikeandgerry
 
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