Can Obama pull it off

Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: av8r On: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:47 pm

We also have private armies in the US that are well funded, well armed and number more than 20,000. Don't think for a minute that these folks aren't thinking this country needs a reset of power and don't think for a minute that they couldn't get the job done.

I believe things are stretched to the point where they will break and break soon. I have my contingency plan and hopefully, I won't have to use it, but y'all should consider carefully the state of our country right now and not dismiss anything as being too "crazy" to happen here.

As far a God goes...I'll leave it to him to decide whether he knows what he's doing or not. Way above my pay grade!

kootch88 wrote:
Buying into a system just because it's the lesser of two evils is in large part the reason we're in the situation we're in today.


The point is our system is flawed, so is every other single system. Hell, even God can't get it right in how people live, and please don't give me the crap about him working in mysterious ways. We know throughout history what happens in dictatorships or oligarchies, whatever you want to call them. Corruption is even more rampant than in a representative system. I'm not saying we do not have corruption, what IU am saying our flawed system may be about as good as it gets when human beings are involved. What is better, having a human being or a computer make decisions? I'll take the human.

If the plan is wait until we have another revolution, you better have a plan in force for a new system of government that can assume power very quickly, becuase we have a forum fool of guys with guns, cities full of crinminals with guns and a whole lot of people who would love no law and order. Kind of like Somalia and other ungoverned places.
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: kootch88 On: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:54 pm

Military governments are not representative, democratic or even hiarchal for the most part. They are dictatorships, kind of like Castro, Saddam, Stalin, Mussolini. You know, all the guys wearing uniforms and acting as heads of state. So if we have our National Gaurd starting a Civil War, we are screwed if they win. If we have one of those militias run by skin heads or some otrher extreme group, we are worse than screwed. Don't think for a second we don't have a little Hitler waiting to be the power to "set things straight".

As far as God goes, that was a joke. He obviously isn't there. By the way, the world is ending December 21, 2012 per the Chinese and Mayan calendars, so now worries, we can make it until then I think.
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: Paulie On: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:28 pm

Wow, a private army.....now that is doing it the hard way. As the terrorist years have shown, no big deal to cause some
grief. As far as over throwing the US gov, not gonna happen. The south tried something close to it a while back, and it did not work out.
Gov can be voted to change, but armed revolt? Sounds like a death wish to me. I have heard all the wacko militant talk
about preparation for the revolt. Better be wearing kevlar because I and many others will preserve and defend the Constitution to the best of our abilities. That is just the civilian population( the most heavily armed in the world). Now
add in the US military,plus a bazillion police forces across the country, and it is going to be a quick fight. Messy but quick.
Do we have some problems? Sure, tons of them, none of which is of revolutionary nature. Corruption is around, the
role of gov in our lives is constantly changing and a balancing act. Personal freedom vs the need to protect ourselves from
our 300 million country men. Democracy is messy, and slow moving, no doubt. Right , Left, Center, it is all here and in the
mix.
I think the biggest failure of the last 10 or 15 years in politics is lack of civility. It leads to bitter divisions and leads
to ethical problems. Remember, it is nice to be important, but more important to be nice. God Bless America :!:
Last edited by Paulie on Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:23 pm

Just posted this in the "Mayor of Balto" thread but it's just as apropos here. It's Lord Acton's quote from April 1887, when the debate over papal infallibility was raging:

I cannot accept your canon that we are to judge Pope and King unlike other men with a favourable presumption that they did no wrong. If there is any presumption, it is the other way, against the holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority: still more when you superadd the tendency or certainty of corruption by authority. There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it.


The genius of our system are the checks and balances given to the three co-equal branches of gov't. So, while it's cumbersome and inefficient at times, our government preserves liberty for each of us by not allowing consolidation of power in any branch of gov't.
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: gerard On: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:29 pm

Devil505 wrote:I think he'll succeed because he's not afraid to get the smartest people in the country to work on the solution to our problems, not just people who attend the right church, donate to his campaign or belonged to the right fraternity.

Call me a pessimist but I don't believe the smartest people in the country work in washington - just career egomaniacs. This country was founded by business men who went into politics to "give back" and they brought their real world experience with them. those days are long gone. Now we have career politicians whose only job has been being a politician and sucking off the government teat.
Remember - a politicians only real job is getting elected or re-elected!!!!!!
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: kootch88 On: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:07 pm

Gard, I know you and others may not believe this, but about half of the founding fathers were Lawyers, many others were soldiers, a lot were of the so called planting class and lesser numbers were business men and regular farmers. I did a report on all the signers of the constitution at the convention when I was in sixth grade. Odd I still remember that. It was off to the index of my parents' Encyclopedia. A lot of work because there were probably 40 signers or even more.

We really need to give Obama a chance is what this conversation comes down to. If we do not give him a chance it means were are screwed, no question. If any American wants Obama to fail, they are un-American in my eyes and mayb they are the ones who should be shot. I would be saying this about whoever we elected and did about Bush even though I knew all about his act in Texas when I lived there while he was Governor. Obama has some good people around him, but he is the guide of this administration and if he allows them free reign, it probably won't work. If he takes their ideas and picks the good and ejects the bad, maybe we will be okay. I sure hope so, for my sake and the next and future generations.
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: gerard On: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:19 pm

Agree with everything you said kootch - Just an observation on my part about the entire system. This is way beyond any one man due to the system of checks and balances inherent in our system (which are necessary but also limit what any one person, even the president, can do.) I just tend to get little skeptical about the enthusiasm for someone with very little experience in anything. Very few presidents come from being senators, more often they come from governors because if you can run a state and have an acceptable track records, the next natural step is running the country. Senators don't run a damn thing and Obama hasn't been around long enough or done enough for me to even know where he stands on issues. I'll be very happy if he does a good job. Just don't want another Jimmy Carter. Nice guy, very intelligent, but never should have been president. (His legacy - 18% interest rates on money market accounts - you want to try and run a small business or expand one when you have to borrow at those rates?? Might as well use "jimmy the nose" to borrow from) :D
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: kootch88 On: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:31 pm

Jimmy was not an effective president, but he was Governor of Georgia prior to becoming president. He was also handed a hand of pure trouble economically so blaming him on the interest rates alone isn't fair or rational in my opinion. One of the reasons he came to power was because he was an outsider, was looked on as an extremely moral man and we needed that after the Nixon debacle. Ford was a great House member and a very good man, but he was an insider and a Republican, so he was a sure out.

Just as a time line, Carter took office in January of 75. Reagan took office in January of 81. We had high interest rates right through the next election of Reagan[list=][/list], but he was never blamed for them. Probably shouldn't have been either. He was handed a lod of crap too, just like Obama has been. If you believe in God, pray like hell that he does well. If you don't, keep your fingers crossed for all of us.
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:36 pm

kootch88 wrote:............If any American wants Obama to fail, they are un-American in my eyes and mayb they are the ones who should be shot. I would be saying this about whoever we elected and did about Bush even though I knew all about his act in Texas.....blah blah blah


If your plan was implemented back in 2000, most of Hollywood California would have been decimated.

:chop:
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: av8r On: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:11 pm

Have you noticed that people who aren't sure of themselves or their abilities manage with fear? Most of what Barry has said is gloom and doom...fearful stuff...I suspect he's trying to scare folks into buying into his "plans". I think he realizes that he's in wayyyy over his head and has nothing of substance to fall back on so he's hoping to scare people. If he's right, it's apocalyptic and if he's wrong, he's a prophet.

Sorry, but I hold out little hope that this man, with literally no experience, questionable contacts and what appears to be no ability to make a decision will do much more than cause the economic death of the US.
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:20 pm

av8r wrote:Have you noticed that people who aren't sure of themselves or their abilities manage with fear? Most of what Barry has said is gloom and doom...fearful stuff...I suspect he's trying to scare folks into buying into his "plans". I think he realizes that he's in wayyyy over his head and has nothing of substance to fall back on so he's hoping to scare people. If he's right, it's apocalyptic and if he's wrong, he's a prophet.

Sorry, but I hold out little hope that this man, with literally no experience, questionable contacts and what appears to be no ability to make a decision will do much more than cause the economic death of the US.


Have you noticed that, by simply changing the name, you've just written the preface to the history of the soon-to-be-former Administration? :smoke:

And that "apocalypse" is here.
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: kootch88 On: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:49 pm

If your plan was implemented back in 2000, most of Hollywood California would have been decimated.


What vested interest does Hollywood have for a catastrophic failure or America? The statement makes no sense. Many of them have different opinion as to how we should solve our problems, but wanting failure makes no sense. You can disagree with the group as a whole, but I disagree with that statement. That is what I would term a baseless statement.

Obama may be entirely wrong, I will give you that, but he hasn't done anything other than name nominees for posts. You may not like those nominations, but you have nothing to base his ultimate failure on B&B.
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: hugg On: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:57 pm

Obama also wants to see a college football playoff. That alone was why I voted for him. ;) :D
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: kootch88 On: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:01 pm

hugg wrote:Obama also wants to see a college football playoff. That alone was why I voted for him. ;) :D


LOL I want to see it too, but I also think the kids should be paid a small share of the huge profits the colleges would make. This student athlete thing is a joke. I voted for him because I was sure IMO that McCain can not pull it off. The playoffs is a bonus!
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:14 pm

Devil505 wrote:I think he'll succeed because he's not afraid to get the smartest people in the country to work on the solution to our problems, not just people who attend the right church, donate to his campaign or belonged to the right fraternity.


This country was built by some smart people, but more importantly, they were experienced people. Quite often, the "smartest guys in the room" are there for one reason.... themselves. Beware the smartest guys in the room. They were behind every social, political, and economic calamity the world has ever known; Those kind who think they can change the Law of Nature. In the aftermath, the pieces are always picked up and dusted off by the common and the experienced men in the room.

As for cronyism: Do you really think Obama will be any different than any politician before him? I think he has already demonstrated he won't through his selections for his cabinet. Hillary is a poor choice for state. No experience and plenty of conflicts-of-interest and other assorted baggage. I won't go through the list but there are problems with his choices.

He is not messianic. He's a smart, inexperienced, uncommon man and, he's quite clueless about how the US works at the main street level, or worse... he doesn't care!

Beware the brilliant ideas of social academics. They are untested.
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