Can Obama pull it off

Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: ken On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:26 am

Theres only one way to fix this country and hopefully Obama knows it. How he would get it done I have no idea. Term limits in the house and senate , 2 years out the door with a 1/4 of your pay for retirement when you reach 65. Buy the way ,who or however did those morons get the right to vote for thier own pay raise. :shock:
ken
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker - Rice Coal
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:36 am

snooze913 wrote:.....


Sorry to hear about the pending layoff. You're lucky, though, to have been given advanced warning, many people were terminated right before Christmas and on January 5th. I would be focusing on preparations now and networking amongst all your business contacts because placing hope in a magic rabbit hat trick from D.C. won't be very productive.

There is going to be a very real and lasting sacrifice to be paid by Americans for the misdeeds of their representatives in Congress.

Most people still don't realize the gravity of the situation and are ill equipped to fend for themselves because they have been raised on someone else's handout.

I refuse to board the Socialist Express Train to hell and will fight with my bare hands anyone attempting to shove me into the box car.
Black_And_Blue
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska 140

Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: samhill On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:03 am

I say give the man a chance, from my views he`s done more in the last few weeks than any other president elect that I can remember. He`s telling the people what he wants to do every step of the way, he`s not lieing that everything is sound, he has never said there`s a quick fix or that it would be easy. A nd don`t forget he`s studied the constitution & taught constitutional law, no dummy in any way. IMO he`s done more for the country & he`s not yet president. Sometimes it`s human nature to be a wee bit narrow minded and we all need to be a wee bit more open minded & look at the big picture. Never have I seen a president ask others to submit questions & ideas to him (now a days you can do it on his website) for the betterment of the government & the country. He and his administration are willing to listen to both negative & positive.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
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Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75


Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: snooze913 On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:47 am

Sorry to hear about the pending layoff. You're lucky, though, to have been given advanced warning, many people were terminated right before Christmas and on January 5th. I would be focusing on preparations now and networking amongst all your business contacts because placing hope in a magic rabbit hat trick from D.C. won't be very productive.


Yes I am very lucky I work for a good company. They saw this coming because our business is tied to the Auto Industry, so if things pick up for the Big 3 things will pick up for us too. There was actually 2 layoffs announced one in December and I'm in the second one by virtue of seniority. However the company I work for also purchased a plant in China recently so the consensus is down the road some of the US production will be transfered to China to supply the Asian market and if it is cheaper some of that product will be coming back to displace the American workers(I know you're thinking not such a good company after all but I don't blame them you have to be competitive or go out of business). I am lucky in another sense that we are eligble for Federal dollars to retrain a workforce that is being displaced by jobs going overseas. I plan on taking advantage of the retraining and getting some skills that can't be outsourced. So I'm not relying soley on Obama's plan from what I'm seeing in the news members of Obama's own party are already ripping into him for this plan so the likely hood of it coming to fruition is slim. I guess when you're getting laid off you don't have the luxury of taking the position of "stay out of it and let the cards fall where they may". If by some miracle my job is temporarily spared in March my goal is still to get retrained because I don't like feeling insecure about my finances and health care for my children.

To sum up I'm not placing all my faith in Obama but I did like some of what I heard the other day. However as the post title implies I have doubts he can shame Congress into a pork free stimulus package. I didn't want to turn this into a personal post about my layoff but I made the mistake of posting at 11:45 pm on a Friday night with some adult beverages in my stomach and obviously affecting my brain too.
snooze913
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading Stoker, Franco Belge
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: JohnMck On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:12 pm

Government does absolutely nothing well. They can't bail out the economy, either. This downturn should be able to run it's course naturally. We had a recession in the eighties that was defeated by tax cuts and patience. Keeping money in the private sector is the answer.The government meddling will only prolong the problem.
How does borrowing and spending money help our economy help us in the long run? It doesn't. It just drives up the national debt, and drives down the value of the dollar.
This plan to "Spend our way out of a recession", is doomed to failure, with us picking up the tab.
JohnMck
 

Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: av8r On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:22 pm

From another forum...sums it up perfectly, IMO

Ya know what hope and change means;

I hope I can make my handlers happy by changing the laws to their political whims. We've had the same thing here in Illinois for years!!! Ha! Ha! Ha!
av8r
 
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:26 pm

JohnMck wrote:Government does absolutely nothing well.


Government does many things well , from landing men on the moon to keeping you alive during the Cold War to locking up criminals. What the current economic crisis proves is that we don't need LESS government, just EFFECTIVE & HONEST government for a change!
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:26 pm

JohnMck wrote:Government does absolutely nothing well. They can't bail out the economy, either. This downturn should be able to run it's course naturally. We had a recession in the eighties that was defeated by tax cuts and patience. Keeping money in the private sector is the answer.The government meddling will only prolong the problem.
How does borrowing and spending money help our economy help us in the long run? It doesn't. It just drives up the national debt, and drives down the value of the dollar.
This plan to "Spend our way out of a recession", is doomed to failure, with us picking up the tab.


This was Herbert Hoover's thesis from the time of the crash in October 1929 until he got his tail thrown out in 1932. Had FDR not come in with all these "socialist" programs that you guys say you hate, we would not only have not been in a position to recover and win WWII, but there's a pretty decent chance that the entire experiment of "capitalism" would have simply failed. Don't forget, at that time there were government-driven economies in Germany, Japan and the USSR that were able to kick some serious ass in terms of manufacturing capability. And it wasn't your all-fired "pure" capitalism that beat them; it was FDR's New Deal.

The economy is not unlike our coal stoves/furnaces. I hate to travel in the winter, because I'm too cheap to run the electric baseboards to keep the place warm and, once the place cools off, it takes half a day to warm it up again. For several years, our economy, which after all is what generates tax revenue, was running at or near its peak, like our furnaces cranking full bore on a cold day. For some combination of reasons (real-estate downturn, sub-prime failures, maybe also the big jump in gas prices last year), people fairly suddenly had less to spend and the economy cooled off. Fewer dollars were available to buy the goods, which keep the merchants going, which keep the people who build stuff going, and then even less is spent, even more stores close, even more jobs are lost, and off we go into the downward spiral of recession. And, if nothing's done to slow it down or stop it, a depression will surely follow. When less fuel (in the form of money) goes in, the fire goes out and the furnace gets cold. And it'll take a helluva long time for it to self-start again.

So what can the gov't do? If you're a Herbert Hoover disciple, nothing. If you subscribe to the FDR/Obama approach, one thing the gov't can do is commission public works (bridges, roads, electric grids, alternate energy production) to put people (many who have lost jobs in housing-related industries) back to work. Sort of like stoking the furnace. When those people go back to work, the money they earn will be spent on appliances, cars and the other stuff that's stopped selling recently, and all of the people in those businesses in turn will have a market again. And when all of those people are employed again, they'll be paying taxes on the money they earn again, tax revenue will increase again, and so on until the "furnace" of the economy is working on its own again. And ultimately there will be enough tax money generated to repay the sources which provided the "fuel" to "stoke the furnace" to keep the fire from going out completely.

Otherwise, our experiment in the "free market" simply fails.
stockingfull
 
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: Dann757 On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:11 pm

What about all the manufacturing jobs that are being sent to China? Companies go there because of fifty-cents-a-day labor. What can be done about that? I heard of a southern small engine plant that just up and canned all it's American employees; and added insult to injury by asking them to teach their jobs to Chinese reps. Then they couldn't sell their small engines in China because nobody could afford them over there. So it was still cost effective to ship them back here to be sold. A company rep said they went overseas strictly due to the cheap cost of labor.
Dann757
 

Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:57 pm

Regardless of who comes to the Presidential podium, you can be sure that:
    1. The rich will continue living the good life, with the very best of everything on earth at their fingertips.
    2. The poor will continue to be poor.
    3. The middle-class will continue on the path to becoming poor.

kootch88 wrote:So plantman, is the answer to throw your hands up and say the hell with it? Doing nothing is certainly a great way to insure doom and gloom. Also, you may not like him, but the Clinton administration left Bush with a balanced budget and was working on reducing the deficit. Do you know who the last president before him was who had a balanced budget?


This new administration is beginning to look alot like Bill Clinton the 3rd. Sure, Clinton had the budget in order at the end of his term, but not long afterward Enron took a dump (coincidentally, right as G.W.B. took office, so he was blamed by the media) & exposed the reasons why the stock market was so high during his administration. Also, I recall reading the paper about thousands of documents being shredded that would have exposed how corrupt that administration was (i.e. Whitewater).

Your gonna get corruption with any administration these days, but you can't put Clinton on a pedestal.
SMITTY
 
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:10 pm

We manufactured our way out of the last depression due to WW2. After the war we stopped making war machines and started making toasters, clothing etc. Today we manufacture very little, and use tax dollars to send our remaining manufacturing plants overseas so they can bring their product back into this country with no tarrifs... what a great deal. The new deal, through its make work program did nothing for the economy. Before the govt. can give something away, it first has to take it away from the people. We need to be exporting goods and services, which we are not doing, to bring more money into this country. With the trade deficit that we are running right now, there are hundreds of billions of dollars leaving our country for good. The govt. is so busy printing money that they have stopped reporting M3 (currency in circulation), in an effort to stimulate the economy. All that will happen is we go deeper in the hole, and the money in our pocket gets devalued even further. Notice I did not say inflation, as that is a misnomer. It is not that things get more expensive to build or do, it is our dollar getting weaker. As the price of gold goes up, it is because the dollar has gone down.

Mike
Complete Heat
 
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:14 pm

The "balanced" budget Klinton gave us was to to refincing treasury note on a short term basis at lower interest rates... smoke and mirrors. Klinto was the one who signed into law the reforms on home lending practices that got us into this mess. 99.9% of the politicians are criminalm and should be brought to justice.

Mike
Complete Heat
 
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:34 pm

Back to the original question of whether Obama "can pull it off", I fully expect him to exploit every opportunity to further expand Government.

“You don’t ever want a crisis to go to waste; it’s an opportunity to do important things that you would otherwise avoid.”

— Rahm Emanuel



I consider that Freudian statement a fair warning.
Black_And_Blue
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska 140

Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:44 pm

Complete Heat wrote:We manufactured our way out of the last depression due to WW2.



You have the answer!!

The day after he takes office...........................
He should declare war on Germany , Japan & Italy!! :rambo2:
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
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Re: Can Obama pull it off

PostBy: kootch88 On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:48 pm

Obama is trying to manufacture his way out in high tech energy sources, infrastructure building and other internal job creation. He may fail, but at least he is trying to do so in long term solutions rather than the quick fix.
kootch88
 
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