Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:44 pm

Just installed mt FC Type RC.

First, I want to say thanks to the whole forum. I had never paid much attention to the subject of covering the baro with foil because I didn't have one. When I tried to start the stove up after installation, and smoke poured out of every orifice on the stove, I QUICKLY remembered the foil posts. :D

Worked like a charm and I was able to get a fire started easily.

I don't have my manometer right now because a friend is setting up his furnace with it so I just set the baro according to the instructions. Right now, it is on the lowest setting. I'm hoping I didn't make a mistake. The FC website said to use a 7" baro due to my chimney height. My coal dealer only had 6". I wanted to install it today since I had the stove down so I bought it. I figured it would work, even if it wasn't "optimal". Am I right or did I waste my money?

I just loaded the stove full after going through the typical starting procedure. While I had a good wood fire going, the baro just slightly fluttered. Now that I have the thing packed with coal, the baro doesn't move at all. I assume that's normal?

I have the air intake open 2 turns(Harman Mk I) which would usually give me decent heat while using the MPD. Will I tend to need more or less air?

I still have the MPD installed, I just left it open for the time being.

Any help would be appreciated.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

PostBy: Cap On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:55 pm

Jeff, Not much you can do till you check the draft with the manometer. If 2 turns on the damper typically works for you without the baro, I would suggest to keep the baro at the max setting or maybe one off the max toward closed till you can test the draft.

Check back with us after you test the draft. I'd suggest .07" or .08" w.c. with a handfired Harman. Any less, you may find your stove makes less heat. All depends on how much space you are heating too. I need .08" to heat my house & basement, sometimes more. But keep in mind, every installation has slightly different operating characteristics.
Cap
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 250, domestic hot water loop, heat accumulator

Re: Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:01 pm

Can you post pictures of your stove, pipes with baro, and chimney? Some things don't sound right. Two turns open on my Harman Mark I, and I think it would melt the stove, so I am surprised you need so much air. Also when you say the baro is at its lowest setting, do you mean .02 -- that is, the sliding weight as far from the plate as it will go? Harman recommends .06 to .10 for this stove, so .02 is an awfully low setting. For the baro not to even move, at such a low setting, implies that you chimney is providing very little draft. It will be interesting to see what your manometer says when you get it back.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

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Re: Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:22 pm

rberq wrote:Can you post pictures of your stove, pipes with baro, and chimney? Some things don't sound right. Two turns open on my Harman Mark I, and I think it would melt the stove, so I am surprised you need so much air. Also when you say the baro is at its lowest setting, do you mean .02 -- that is, the sliding weight as far from the plate as it will go? Harman recommends .06 to .10 for this stove, so .02 is an awfully low setting. For the baro not to even move, at such a low setting, implies that you chimney is providing very little draft. It will be interesting to see what your manometer says when you get it back.


Yes, I have it at .02 per the markings on the damper. The chimney is an outside 21', 6"x6" terra cota lined chimney.

Here is the stove for reference.

Image
Image
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The stove didn't look like it was doing much until I opened the door to clean the window then I got this.

Image
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

PostBy: rberq On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:19 pm

The chimney sounds adequate, though an exposed chimney can be a problem because it is constantly cooled by outside air. It should warm up somewhat after you have a good fire going, and that will only improve the draft and the draw through your stove.

But please, try moving the sliding baro weight to the other end of the scale, to .08 rather than .02. That should give you more draft to suck more air through the coal. And it sounds to me like that is what you need -- more draft. You could even cap the baro again with aluminum foil, and leave it that way for a few hours until you have a well-established fire. Even when closed there is enough leakage around the baro plate to affect a marginal draft.

After you find you can keep a good fire going for days on end, and are getting the heat you expect, THEN experiment with lower draft settings. I have the same stove you do, and it does well at .07 to .08, but not at lower settings. Again, Harman recommends .06 to .10.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:31 pm

Well, I last tended the stove about 12 hrs ago and everything seems OK. I noticed the baro moving in response to some slight wind so something is working. :)

I really am abusing this stove as I'm trying, fairly successfully, to heat around 1900 sq ft when the stove is only designed for 1400. It needs to be 80* in the basement to make it about 70* upstairs. That's where I am now.

One thing I noticed is it seems more "responsive", or something to air intake. Previously, the difference between 1 turn and 2 wasn't all that much. Now it is quite noticeable and more rapid. Don't know if it's my imagination or not.

The other thing I noticed is that the pipe past the baro is hotter than other stoves I have seen. Not too hot, but hotter than some.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

PostBy: rberq On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:18 pm

jpete wrote:I really am abusing this stove


Well, let's say you are "using" it rather than "abusing" it. After all, that's what it's there for, to provide heat. A marketing claim that a stove will heat x number of square feet is pretty silly, because a new, well-built, well-insulated house needs far less heat per square foot than a leaky uninsulated old house. I believe Harman says the stove is being over-fired if the stovepipe temp very close to the stove outlet exceeds 500 degrees. So unless yours is higher than that we can't call it abuse. 1900 square feet with that stove is pretty impressive.

Glad to hear it is burning well now. If you check it with your manometer, please post the draft reading with a good fire going. I am very curious whether it is truly as low as the .02 that the baro is set for.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:05 pm

The chimney is an outside 21', 6"x6" terra cota lined chimney.


That chimney should provide a good draft, this doesn't make sense. My chimney is 2 1/2 stories tall, upper 2/3 is outside, 6 X 6 liner. It draws like a vacuum cleaner.

These photos were just taken, air vent on the ash door is 1 turn open:
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Have you checked the area behind the baffle and the lower elbow for ash build up? My Mark I collects all the fly ash there and it lowers the draft quite a bit once there is enough ash behind the baffle. I have a tee with a cap instead of an elbow on the stove outlet, makes cleaning a snap.

Also, you need to get that chimney warmed up before you can get a good coal fire going, foil the baro and build a nice hot wood fire in the stove for at least 15 minutes before adding coal to get the chimney warmed up and drawing. With the baro weight on .02 the flap should be wide open all the time. You need to get an accurate draft reading with a manometer.

My stove seems to like -.05" WC, Harman says -.06 to -.10, if I had it set for that I'd lose lots of heat up the chimney.

Lastly-where did the coal you have come from. Sounds like it might be worth it to try a different brand. Are you using pea or nut size?
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:16 pm

I went to town with the shop vac when I had everything apart so I know the stove and the chimney are clean. I am using nut coal but where it comes from I have no idea. There is only one supplier here so I get what I get. The instructions say to set it for the lowest setting which does the job so wouldn't .02 be the best? I'll have to get the manometer from my friend and check where I'm at.

Wouldn't setting it at .06-.08 mean more of my heat was going up the chimney?
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:20 pm

Does the baro open at all with the weight set at .02?
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:31 pm

Yes, it opens when the wind blows.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:44 pm

Wouldn't setting it at .06-.08 mean more of my heat was going up the chimney?


With the draft set below -.05" there will not be enough air drawn through the coal bed on a hand fired to allow the coal to burn well. When you get over -.07 (in my opinion) you start loosing heat up the chimney.

My suggestion is to try a known good brand of coal, nut size, and move the weight on the baro to -.05 and check the draft with the manometer when you have a full fire burning.

Quality coal means everything :!:
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

PostBy: MountainPreacher On: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:46 am

Wood'nCoal wrote:
The chimney is an outside 21', 6"x6" terra cota lined chimney.


That chimney should provide a good draft, this doesn't make sense. My chimney is 2 1/2 stories tall, upper 2/3 is outside, 6 X 6 liner. It draws like a vacuum cleaner.

These photos were just taken, air vent on the ash door is 1 turn open:
MAN-O-METER 2.jpg
BARO AGAIN 2.jpg


Have you checked the area behind the baffle and the lower elbow for ash build up? My Mark I collects all the fly ash there and it lowers the draft quite a bit once there is enough ash behind the baffle. I have a tee with a cap instead of an elbow on the stove outlet, makes cleaning a snap.

Also, you need to get that chimney warmed up before you can get a good coal fire going, foil the baro and build a nice hot wood fire in the stove for at least 15 minutes before adding coal to get the chimney warmed up and drawing. With the baro weight on .02 the flap should be wide open all the time. You need to get an accurate draft reading with a manometer.

My stove seems to like -.05" WC, Harman says -.06 to -.10, if I had it set for that I'd lose lots of heat up the chimney.

Lastly-where did the coal you have come from. Sounds like it might be worth it to try a different brand. Are you using pea or nut size?


It appears as though the baro damper weight is installed for the Horizontal mount and you have it mounted vertical ???
MountainPreacher
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnafire Mark II

Re: Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:19 am

Maybe I misunderstood the directions but I was assuming the axis that the baro swung on was what they meant by horizontal or vertical.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Newly installed baro. Thanks and questions

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:20 am

Moved the weight to the other side. :D :idea: :oops:

They mean the pipe the baro is installed in, vertical or horizontal pipe.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

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