Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:23 am

They are now talking about "The Massachusetts Model" for national health care. What they don't say is MA is going bankrupt with their system.
jpete
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:33 am

jpete wrote:They are now talking about "The Massachusetts Model" for national health care. What they don't say is MA is going bankrupt with their system.


Also, Gov. Schwarzenegger attempted to implement a mirrored plan of Mitts a year ago. It was roundly defeated.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Freddy On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:40 am

Oh YA! Massachusetts! They mandate that you buy insurance, and if you cannot afford it, THEY FINE YOU!! You'll not see a tax return again if you are poor and live in MA.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:44 am

Freddy wrote:I dunno....maybe sit back & watch Maine. We have "Maine Care". Forced down our throats by the governor a few years ago. Every person that can not afford health insurance, get's it for free. It's paid for in several different ways. One of the ways is that ALL health insurance policies now carry a 3% "tax" and that 3% goes to Mainecare. It's underfunded, overused, slow to pay, and generally pisses off the Dr's and hospitals, BUT, the people that are on it love it. I don't know if we're first in the nation or not, but come on, empty your bank account & move to Maine, we'll treat ya right!


There is was an article from 2006 in the WSJ opinion section that explains the Maine plan :

http://online.wsj.com/public/page/news- ... =110007973

It isn't free and is being sued because of fraud.

Much like a perpetual motion machine, it sounds good in theory but will inevitability grind to a halt.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:25 pm

Just wait until the US implements its universal health care, the quality of care in all nation's universal health care programs will plummet! US Drug companies will be fenced in by govt price controls and no longer able to subsidize the drug expenses of other nations at the expense of the US consumer. Over time a shortage of health care pros will cause delays in treatment.

Further, the number of specialists in this nation will contract as their "export" business will be cut off due to fee and service controls by the govt. This will cause a "shortage" of specialists over time as will the severe reduction in earnings potential for US doctors.

Other nations are "happy" with their UHC systems because they don't know any other system. Soon however, it will get worse when the US adopts their UHC system.

It will smooth out after a couple of generations and all will be "well" in an Orwellian sense.

Drink the Kool Aide
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:42 pm

stockingfull wrote:No, it would be what he would do (that's what WWJD means, after all :hammer: ) and what he would expect of you.

As to the so-called "gun to your head," have you ever heard of "tithing?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe Not always voluntary.... :roll:


Coercion is not the way of the Lord.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:52 pm

stockingfull wrote:Or, like we do with roads and schools and electric lines and water lines, everybody could pay for everybody's aspirin. :whistle:


First of all, not all of those things are publically owned. Secondly, assuming they were, why stop there? Let's do it with food, clothing, shelter, oil and golf balls. Let ME decide how YOU will live using YOUR money.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Paulie On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:25 pm

Freddy wrote:Oh YA! Massachusetts! They mandate that you buy insurance, and if you cannot afford it, THEY FINE YOU!! You'll not see a tax return again if you are poor and live in MA.

Of course you will be fined. Why should only 2/3 population pay for health care and the other 1/3 go free? Please,
do not give my the poor crap either. That is why Gov needs to get involved. Right now, not everybody pays in. But
if you are sick, you will be cared for. Why should I pay for someone else when my insurance is private and expensive? Do
we keep the private model and let people that do not have the $$ get sick and die? You can not have it both ways. That is
one of many reasons why the system is so screwed. Providers cost shift to cover the freebies. My rates go up, the freebie
stays free.
Now, if the Gov wants to tax and provide health care.....so be it. It will be less than we are paying now, which
is stupid money. It will actually be fairer than what is happening now. Bottom line, it is coming to a head and must be
addressed. Insurance companies need to be taken out of the mix. If you are sick in MA, you will be treated, I do not
know what other states do.
I have to laugh, the same people who do not want Gov involved in health care are the first ones to cry poor mouth when
sick, looking for free care. People, CARE IS NOT FREE, the problem we face as a society is how to pay for it, getting the
best value for every dollar spent and cover everybody. I do not believe the gov can run health care, but it can be regulated,
so it is the same everywhere. Insurance companies get in some cases more than half of the money, and provide no
care. The answer is somewhere between letting the poor die in the street, and the Gov running everything.
Paulie
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: stockingfull On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:51 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:
stockingfull wrote:No, it would be what he would do (that's what WWJD means, after all :hammer: ) and what he would expect of you.

As to the so-called "gun to your head," have you ever heard of "tithing?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe Not always voluntary.... :roll:


Coercion is not the way of the Lord.


:what: You gotta be kidding.

All religions are about coercing abandonment/deferral of some "devlish" instinct(s) with the prospect of some "eternal reward." Whatever you call the money, whether "alms," or "pledges," or "tithing," it is no different; if just being "thankful" were sufficient, nobody would give their church, temple or mosque a dime. :angel:
stockingfull
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:06 pm

stockingfull wrote: :what: You gotta be kidding.

All religions are about coercing abandonment/deferral of some "devlish" instinct(s) with the prospect of some "eternal reward." Whatever you call the money, whether "alms," or "pledges," or "tithing," it is no different; if just being "thankful" were sufficient, nobody would give their church, temple or mosque a dime. :angel:



You confuse organized religion and faith. Organized religion is the stinking folly of man. Faith comes from the heart.

By your analysis of the motivations and practices of religion, socialism certainly qualifies as a religion. Just substitute the words "laws", "inappropriate behavior" and "taxes" for "religions", "devilish instincts" and "tithes". Your "eternal reward is "good" citizenship by a party standard. Aint nobody volunteering those tax dollars either, my friend !

Make no mistake, organized religion and socialism both suck.

Faith and freedom are angels of God and the sustenance of man.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: stockingfull On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:42 pm

Maybe, but your "faith" and "freedom" alone don't keep a society stuck together and functioning.

Especially if you live out in the country, where you least realize how dependent you are on your neighbors, think about how much it would cost YOU to have that road in front of your farm or house paved and maintained and plowed and salted in the winter, if you really were as "free" as you'd like to think.

Same with electricity, and phone lines, and on and on.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:10 pm

stockingfull wrote:Maybe, but your "faith" and "freedom" alone don't keep a society stuck together and functioning.

Especially if you live out in the country, where you least realize how dependent you are on your neighbors, think about how much it would cost YOU to have that road in front of your farm or house paved and maintained and plowed and salted in the winter, if you really were as "free" as you'd like to think.

Same with electricity, and phone lines, and on and on.


Faith seems to be uniting Palestinians and Israelis alike. Freedom is what they are fighting about, albeit from different prospectives.

I live in the country and our infrastructure is less than that found in the urban centers. We get what we pay for. Same should be true for UHC. A program for the indigent (medicaid) would be the decent thing to do but UHC is beyond necessity. Profits are not optional, even for socialists. HC represents 16% of the US economy and is growing at an 8% rate. Population and wages are not growing as fast. UHC will only ensure that the US is encumbered with another costly badly structured government program like social security and when you need it most, it will be less than you thought.

I am no anarchist. I just don't want government doing more than it should. It has no business bailing out automakers but banking is in its realm. Infrastructure is certainly a government function as is public health, but personal health care certainly is NOT the job of government. Social security greatly overstepped the bounds of "promoting the general welfare" in 1935 as does any UHC plan.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: av8r On: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:39 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:
stockingfull wrote:No, it would be what he would do (that's what WWJD means, after all :hammer: ) and what he would expect of you.

As to the so-called "gun to your head," have you ever heard of "tithing?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe Not always voluntary.... :roll:


Coercion is not the way of the Lord.


Amen, Brother. Anyone who has tithed with a joyful heart will tell you they have never been more prosperous or happy. Many folks just don't get it. Selfishness is too strong a trait in many.
av8r
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: U235a4 On: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:05 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:
stockingfull wrote:Maybe, but your "faith" and "freedom" alone don't keep a society stuck together and functioning.

Especially if you live out in the country, where you least realize how dependent you are on your neighbors, think about how much it would cost YOU to have that road in front of your farm or house paved and maintained and plowed and salted in the winter, if you really were as "free" as you'd like to think.

Same with electricity, and phone lines, and on and on.


Faith seems to be uniting Palestinians and Israelis alike. Freedom is what they are fighting about, albeit from different prospectives.

I live in the country and our infrastructure is less than that found in the urban centers. We get what we pay for. Same should be true for UHC. A program for the indigent (medicaid) would be the decent thing to do but UHC is beyond necessity. Profits are not optional, even for socialists. HC represents 16% of the US economy and is growing at an 8% rate. Population and wages are not growing as fast. UHC will only ensure that the US is encumbered with another costly badly structured government program like social security and when you need it most, it will be less than you thought.

I am no anarchist. I just don't want government doing more than it should. It has no business bailing out automakers but banking is in its realm. Infrastructure is certainly a government function as is public health, but personal health care certainly is NOT the job of government. Social security greatly overstepped the bounds of "promoting the general welfare" in 1935 as does any UHC plan.



Thanks M&G I couldn't have said it better,,,, I for one don't believe in UHC, Welfare, or Social Security,,,, I believe the US goverment has 3 main roles national roads, US security, and war....outside of that it should only be private business
U235a4
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: JohnMck On: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:44 am

First off, health care in this country is so expensive because of the Tort lawyers. They drive up the cost of malpractice insurance, henceforth theprices we have to pay. Look at how rich John Edwards is, and you'll see how much money these leeches are siphoning off the industery.
Secondly, we already have Universal Health care in this country. Present yourself at any public hospital in America and you will be treated.
Thirdly, I don't trust the government with my health care, or my records.
And last, there is NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO HEALTH CARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JohnMck