Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:12 am

stockingfull wrote:
jpete wrote:Dependency=Slavery.

On this, I agree: there are a great many people now who are almost literally indentured, whether to their employers or their spouses, because of employer-based health insurance.

And they soon will be emancipated from that slavery.


Oh great, they can all quit their jobs and get divorces. That'll be wonderful. And the rest of the producers can pay for it. Did I tell you I pay every week for legal insurance too?

Could you work on the government paying for that too? It really would help the populace if they didn't have to be tied to that old cow they swore to be with "til death do they part"

Why not have the government give us everything. I'd really rather not go to my job every day. But I'm tied to is because I have to pay those things called "taxes".

When do I get emancipated from them?
jpete
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: stockingfull On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:10 am

Jeff, people who work will always have more than people who don't. The choice for you always has been and always will be yours. But now, as it has been with retirement accounts for the last generation, you won't have to worry about losing your healthcare if you want to change jobs, or if you have to leave one for a family emergency or any other reason. And people won't have to stay in bad marriages to keep their health ins. You're in an even smaller minority than I thought if you think healthcare should depend on not changing jobs or staying in unhealthy relationships.

Brock, just because our country is the last industrialized country without universal healthcare doesn't mean we should remain in the Dark Ages forever. If we're smart enough to put a man on the moon, or invent "credit default swaps," we can do this -- and in fact the voters chose to do just that in the last election. So "your kind" gets to move if you don't like it.
stockingfull
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: JohnMck On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:19 am

Devil505 wrote:
JohnMck wrote:I don't care if someone else has health care!!! It's not my problem, and I shouldn't have to pay for it!!!!!


I don't care if Russia invades & occupies Pennsylvania!....I live in Massachusetts....It's not my problem, and I shouldn't have to pay for it!!!!!

(Don't we live in the "Dis-United & I could Give A Crap About Anyone But Me States of America"??

On opening day, for deer season, over 100,000 armed Pennsylvanians take to the woods, making it the largest non-military armed force in the world. Let the Russians come.
JohnMck
 


Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:17 am

stockingfull wrote:Jeff, people who work will always have more than people who don't. The choice for you always has been and always will be yours. But now, as it has been with retirement accounts for the last generation, you won't have to worry about losing your healthcare if you want to change jobs, or if you have to leave one for a family emergency or any other reason. And people won't have to stay in bad marriages to keep their health ins. You're in an even smaller minority than I thought if you think healthcare should depend on not changing jobs or staying in unhealthy relationships.


Are you ready for the war when it comes Stocking?

all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable,


People got fed up before. What makes you think they won't do it again?
jpete
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: stockingfull On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:52 am

:yearight: That'll make the irony hall of fame, Jeff: "Americans Stage Armed Uprising To Stop Universal Healthcare" :clap:

Actually, it'll just get you all imprisoned. But even that won't get you away from the dreaded UHC. :stretcher:
stockingfull
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:07 am

It might not be this but how long do you think people will calmly allow the government to steal from them? The Boston Tea Party wasn't about tea it was about "a long train of abuses". And it won't be me, I don't even own a gun. But Obama HAS stimulated gun sales. People ARE getting fed up. How long do you think people will watch the welfare crowd eat a lunch they didn't earn while their own family does without? I make a good wage. I don't own a home and my newest car is eight years old and I'm barely getting by. More taxes only serve to drive me down. The "rich" you despise will not be affected by your policies. Just guys like me who get up every day and try to feed their families. How long will people put up with it?
jpete
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:32 am

JohnMck wrote:
Devil505 wrote:
JohnMck wrote:I don't care if someone else has health care!!! It's not my problem, and I shouldn't have to pay for it!!!!!


I don't care if Russia invades & occupies Pennsylvania!....I live in Massachusetts....It's not my problem, and I shouldn't have to pay for it!!!!!

(Don't we live in the "Dis-United & I could Give A Crap About Anyone But Me States of America"??

On opening day, for deer season, over 100,000 armed Pennsylvanians take to the woods, making it the largest non-military armed force in the world. Let the Russians come.


And a lightly equipped Girl Scout Troop (armed with a few cases of chocolate mint GS cookies) would have little trouble "Brushing Aside" your..." largest non-military armed force in the world."....in about an hour! :P :lol:
Devil505
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: cabinover On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:37 am

stockingfull wrote::yearight: That'll make the irony hall of fame, Jeff: "Americans Stage Armed Uprising To Stop Universal Healthcare" :clap:

Actually, it'll just get you all imprisoned. But even that won't get you away from the dreaded UHC. :stretcher:


Not a bad idea all of us being imprisoned. Then we can have free everything as well and with any luck UHC, welfare for baby mommas, food stamps used to buy frozen dinners so the cash can buy smokes, and a hundred other gimme programs will wilt on the vine because no one will fund it anyway, we're all in prison.

I don't have a problem helping someone when they are down but it just never ends anymore. There is no responsibility for your own actions because big brother is always there to say "That's not fair, let me fix it for you by taking someone else's fruits and giving them to you."

As for public works and municipalities...I'm not even going to get started.

I'd love to think that the day gov't takes over health care things would get better but it simply won't happen. If you are given an open pocketbook with someone else's money why would you care how much was spent? Someone will refill it. That someone is you and I if you work and pay taxes. There is no imaginary person/entity that can do it. Government's track record isn't that great.


Not here to make enemies, just my take on a very important topic. Carry on folks.
cabinover
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:08 pm

I think much of the disagreement on this thread would be ended by simply restating the question to more accurately reflect the REAL proposed health plan to this: Should the USA have Universally Available Healthcare??
(not paid for or run by government, just made universally available to all citizens)
Devil505
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: stockingfull On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:57 pm

jpete wrote:It might not be this but how long do you think people will calmly allow the government to steal from them? The Boston Tea Party wasn't about tea it was about "a long train of abuses". And it won't be me, I don't even own a gun. But Obama HAS stimulated gun sales. People ARE getting fed up. How long do you think people will watch the welfare crowd eat a lunch they didn't earn while their own family does without? I make a good wage. I don't own a home and my newest car is eight years old and I'm barely getting by. More taxes only serve to drive me down. The "rich" you despise will not be affected by your policies. Just guys like me who get up every day and try to feed their families. How long will people put up with it?

This is COMPLETE BS, Jeff.

Surely you remember from junior high school that the Boston Tea Party was a protest about "taxation without representation." And nobody has denied you the right to vote. The only problem is that you lost.

And all the gun sales aren't because people are girding for armed revolt (although many of the buyers and sellers might subscribe to the outright sedition you're promoting). Guns are selling right now because the gun lobby is fear-mongering that guns and/or ammo are going to be outlawed -- WHICH ISN'T THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD.

But just keep writing about your plans for armed insurrection, Jeff. I mean, so the authorities will have a complete file. :roll:
stockingfull
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:42 pm

Stocking, I'm done. You obviously know it all. Time will tell which one of us is right. Devil, to get back on topic, healthcare is ALREADY available all over the country. Walk into any hospital and regardless of your ability to pay you will be treated. If you want better thann that, do what your momma told you and get educated, get a good job and you will have no issue being able to afford better insurance than the average illegal immigrant.
jpete
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:07 pm

jpete wrote:Devil, to get back on topic, healthcare is ALREADY available all over the country. Walk into any hospital and regardless of your ability to pay you will be treated.


That's NOT healthcare...That's what many poor families do now, because they have no doctors or health insurance plan. It costs us all much more to pay for those Emergency room visits than would a universally AVAILABLE & AFFORDABLE health care SYSTEM, such as is being proposed & WILL go through. Why is healthcare tied to your employer in this country>?? It costs the employer much more & makes him uncompetitive with his foreign competitors.
A system like that would mean that low income people would at least be paying something (based on their means) rather than paying NOTHING & having us keep paying for their ER visits with higher insurance rates & drug costs, like we do now.
Don't listen to the lies & scare BS put out by greedy Pharmaceutical & insurance companies giants who are ripping us all off with today's NON-system.
Devil505
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: tvb On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:14 pm

Jeff - you are right, anyone can get very basic care at any publicly funded hospital (a socialist endeavor :o ) but it's only basic care and it's almost always reactive rather than preventive. It's common knowledge that preventive care lowers the cost of healthcare for everyone but ERs are not set up for that. And when the person who is ill and without insurance shows up at the ER and can't pay? You pay and you pay big dollars for it.

Now, let me ask you -would you rather see a $70 preventive doctor appt. paid for or a $7000 ER visit for the same problem that is now spinning out of control because the uninsured person couldn't access the preventative care so necessary to good health? Don't go trying to say you don't want to pay any of it because fact is, you already are paying for it.

Choose your poison and be careful of what you wish for.
tvb
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:20 pm

tvb wrote:Don't go trying to say you don't want to pay any of it because fact is, you already are paying for it.


Well said!! :up: :clap:
Devil505
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:46 pm

Devil and tvb, nothing you've said is technically wrong. I won't deny the current system is a mess What I have been saying to get out. You want to go further in! Some socialization is a disaster and your solution is more socialization! That's insane! Congress created this mess and now you trust them to fix it!? Why?! What have they ever done but move us away from what the country was founded on, namely, freedom, and moved us closer to socialism? I'm not so narrow minded to believe either side bears 100% responsibility nor am I going to say it was any one particular person in the last 40 years. But we ARE moving toward socialization. And the speed at which we are moving is picking up. I want LESS government involvement in my life. Not MORE! For ANY reason. I want to live and die based on MY decisions. Why do uou insist on handing your life to a D.C. slug who can run his own life but can tell you how to run yours? I guess I'll never understand your side of the argument.
jpete
 
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