Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: tvb On: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:33 pm

I guess I'll never understand your side of the argument.


:cheers:

Finally! We agree on something!

:cheers:
tvb
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: wnyjim On: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:33 pm

My buddy just passed away.
Intensive care for 3 months.
Bill $28,000/ Day.
His insurance 2 million dollar lifetime max.
Lucky he had insurance but its not enough.
Whats the answer? He's dead and he was a damn hard worker and great dad.
Just a bit of reality for anyone who might need it.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:59 pm

Sorry for your loss but take a look at UK healthcare. Your friend wouldn't have got the treatment he got because some government troll would have done the cost benefit equation and denied him any care at all. That's not the system we want but it is the one we'll likely get. And good luck changing it. We have been living with the mess we have now since 1973.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:42 pm

Sorry for your loss also, a good friend is hard to come by & even harder when one is lost. But to ask a question of jpete, why don`t you do some research on Japans UHC ? From everything I`ve been able to find It`s a pretty good system.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: stockingfull On: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:17 pm

I'm sorry for your loss too, Jim.

My best friend died 12 yrs ago, age 45, from multiple myeloma. He was a partner at one of the BIG accounting firms, making a ton, and supposedly had great coverage. Took a while to diagnose it because he wasn't in the statistically likely age group. Bottom line: he needed a bone marrow transplant and the HMO kept him waiting for what proved to be fatal weeks while they "investigated" whether the (very expensive) treatment was "efficacious."

By the time they approved it, he had lost critical time and was too weak to survive it. He died in the hospital, two days after the procedure.

All this happened in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, in the good old United States of America, under the wonderful private healthcare system that all the freepers here think is so freaking great.

He left a wife and three daughters. They're OK, but he never got to know his (now six) grandchildren.

But I bet he's smiling somewhere if he can see all the insurance boyz, as Rush puts it, "grabbing their socks."
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:40 pm

samhill wrote: But to ask a question of jpete, why don`t you do some research on Japans UHC ? From everything I`ve been able to find It`s a pretty good system.


Yeah, sounds great.

More than 14,000 emergency patients were rejected at least three times by Japanese hospitals before getting treatment in 2007, according to the latest government survey. In the worst case, a woman in her 70s with a breathing problem was rejected 49 times in Tokyo
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:42 pm

stockingfull wrote:All this happened in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, in the good old United States of America, under the wonderful private healthcare system that all the freepers here think is so freaking great.


Why not go back to the pre-HMO system and let doctors run their businesses as they see fit. Who would know what care you need best? Your doctor, a private health insurance company, or a group of beaurocrats?
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: coalkirk On: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:43 pm

stockingfull wrote:I'm sorry for your loss too, Jim.

My best friend died 12 yrs ago, age 45, from multiple myeloma. He was a partner at one of the BIG accounting firms, making a ton, and supposedly had great coverage. Took a while to diagnose it because he wasn't in the statistically likely age group. Bottom line: he needed a bone marrow transplant and the HMO kept him waiting for what proved to be fatal weeks while they "investigated" whether the (very expensive) treatment was "efficacious."

By the time they approved it, he had lost critical time and was too weak to survive it. He died in the hospital, two days after the procedure.

All this happened in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, in the good old United States of America, under the wonderful private healthcare system that all the freepers here think is so freaking great.

He left a wife and three daughters. They're OK, but he never got to know his (now six) grandchildren.

But I bet he's smiling somewhere if he can see all the insurance boyz, as Rush puts it, "grabbing their socks."


Sorry for the loss of your friends Jim and Jon. Jon your example is exactly the reason that a Universal Healthcare system would be a disaster. Imagine that senario or similar ones multipled by millions. That's not idle speculation. People who can afford it travel here from other countries with socialized medicine because they can't get the care they need in a timely manner. The others, well they die.
Oh and why was Jims' buddies bill $28,000.00 per day? Here's a couple reasons. Because we're paying for healthcare for 30 million illegal aliens and because docs are afraid not to run every test known to them to avoid getting sued by a damn lawyer. Immigration reform and tort reform would go a long way toward solving our healthcare problems. Think that's going to happen under Obama, Pelosi and Reid? And before anyone gets in a snit, Bush was just as bad on immigration. Too much political correctness is contributing to bringing out country to its knees.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:55 pm

I got my info from a NPR(national public radio) website & it claims no system is perfect but does give a lot of pro`s to it, the biggest problem according to the article is that it`s too cheap so it is hurting some hosipitals. I was just curious as to where you get all your info about how many times people were rejected & the such?
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:58 pm

samhill wrote:I got my info from a NPR(national public radio) website & it claims no system is perfect but does give a lot of pro`s to it, the biggest problem according to the article is that it`s too cheap so it is hurting some hosipitals. I was just curious as to where you get all your info about how many times people were rejected & the such?


Is the AP, a biased news source? Don't know but here it is.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29013386/
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:12 pm

I read that. Then I checked the msn site for other articles & my site was listed there so I guess it all depends on where or when you look. At least that guy was picked up & they tried to find him a hospital. Where was it N.Y. city or somewhere here in the states where they just let a guy lay & tried to drive around him.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:18 pm

samhill wrote:I read that. Then I checked the msn site for other articles & my site was listed there so I guess it all depends on where or when you look. At least that guy was picked up & they tried to find him a hospital. Where was it N.Y. city or somewhere here in the states where they just let a guy lay & tried to drive around him.


Well, since you are talking to a guy whose wife is an EMT, I can assure you that EMS isn't typically in the habit of driving around injured people.

Here's another one. Australia has government/private insurance. Basic care is government provided.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/australi ... ml?page=-1

AUSTRALIANS have been refused insurance protection because of their genetic make-up, researchers have shown in the first study in the world to provide proof of genetic discrimination.


Now, since Obama just made all your health records property of the US government, does anyone else think government health care might be a bad thing? Or we somehow "better" than those savages in Australia and that kind of thing "won't happen here"?
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: stockingfull On: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:02 pm

coalkirk wrote:Jon your example is exactly the reason that a Universal Healthcare system would be a disaster. Imagine that senario or similar ones multipled by millions. That's not idle speculation. People who can afford it travel here from other countries with socialized medicine because they can't get the care they need in a timely manner. The others, well they die.
Oh and why was Jims' buddies bill $28,000.00 per day? Here's a couple reasons. Because we're paying for healthcare for 30 million illegal aliens and because docs are afraid not to run every test known to them to avoid getting sued by a damn lawyer. Immigration reform and tort reform would go a long way toward solving our healthcare problems. Think that's going to happen under Obama, Pelosi and Reid? And before anyone gets in a snit, Bush was just as bad on immigration. Too much political correctness is contributing to bringing out country to its knees.

Actually, Terry, first we're not talking about "socialized medicine." We're talking about preventative care provided with the insurance company profits taken off the top. Second, I'd match those insurance company profits against the aggregate cost of tort cases, to say nothing of whatever savings "tort reform" measures might claim. It's the classic con by the chamber of commerce and it's not going to fly this time.

Would UHC have made the difference for my late buddy? Who knows? But it sure wasn't some "gov't bureaucrat" who killed him, it was some faceless clown in Dayton, Ohio, paid by a profit-making insurance company to say "no." So enough with the BS that only "socialized" systems ration care.

Regarding the UHC debate, to me, the greatest gift this President brings to the office is what he exhibited when he went to dinner with Kristol, Will, Krauthamer, Brooks, et al, back in January. Because he's trained in forensics and able to absorb material so quickly, he can go toe to toe with his adversaries, just like he used to do with the conservatives at the Harvard Law Review. So he'll invite the insurance companies into the room, just like he did last week, but that doesn't mean that he'll buy everything they're selling. This time around, it's not lobbyist vs. lobbyist; facts will talk and BS will walk.

That's why the insurance companies are "grabbing their socks," as Rush puts it.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: coalkirk On: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:12 pm

stockingfull wrote:Actually, Terry, first we're not talking about "socialized medicine." We're talking about preventative care provided with the insurance company profits taken off the top. Second, I'd match those insurance company profits against the aggregate cost of tort cases, to say nothing of whatever savings "tort reform" measures might claim. It's the classic con by the chamber of commerce and it's not going to fly this time.
I'm glad to see you read your "Rom" talking points memo regarding not referring to this system as socialized medicine.
Would UHC have made the difference for my late buddy? Who knows? But it sure wasn't some "gov't bureaucrat" who killed him, it was some faceless clown in Dayton, Ohio, paid by a profit-making insurance company to say "no." So enough with the BS that only "socialized" systems ration care.
Sure, all insurance companies, including the one you work for, are profit making. The point is the percentage of health care recipients who are rationed care will by many times higher. And to be completley accurate, I don't think anyone killed your friend. Sadly his cancer caused his death. The faceless clown in Dayton, Ohio may have hastened it and that's tragic. I'm worried about all the additional hastenings that will be part of rationing care under "Universal Health Care"
Regarding the UHC debate, to me, the greatest gift this President brings to the office is what he exhibited when he went to dinner with Kristol, Will, Krauthamer, Brooks, et al, back in January. Because he's trained in forensics and able to absorb material so quickly, he can go toe to toe with his adversaries, just like he used to do with the conservatives at the Harvard Law Review. So he'll invite the insurance companies into the room, just like he did last week, but that doesn't mean that he'll buy everything they're selling. This time around, it's not lobbyist vs. lobbyist; facts will talk and BS will walk.
Damn!!! He sounds like a Maverick!!
That's why the insurance companies are "grabbing their socks," as Rush puts it.

You seem to be quite the Limbaugh fan. Something we don't have in common.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:14 am

Terry, I don't disagree that multiple myeloma killed my buddy. But there are some here who've been promoting that it's only in Canada, or the UK, or in some other "socialized medicine" country that such terrible things as rationing of care happen. That part is simply false: people in those countries also die of their diseases, just like my friend. There's not a bit of difference.

Nor will there be a bit of difference in yours or any other private healthcare plan when the President's plan is implemented. For the umpteenth time, if you like what you have, you'll be able to keep it. And that's just another reason why it's not "socialized medicine."

But I'm betting the vast majority of people won't make that choice, because they'll quickly discover that, once the insurance-company profits come out, their healthcare dollar will go a whole lot farther with the "public option."

And where did you get the idea that I'm a fan of comedian Limbaugh? I must say that it's amusing watching Mike Steele as the GOP pinata right now. Doesn't bode well for the future of the party that they have to forsake the moderates and veer sharply right in order to raise cash from the "red meat" wingnuts.
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