Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: ken On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:20 am

I worked for myself for 25 years. Lucky I never got hurt or sick in those years. I had health insurance in the beginning. Over time it was just to much money. Kinda like works comp too. They both just keep going up and up. Couldn't afford a real good policy anymore after 20 years. So I got a policy that only covered if I had a serious problem. Low and behold 5 years or so later I wreck my bike doing about 10 mph in a corner. Spent 4 months in the hospital. The bill was over $300,000. :shock: crazy. One doctor came in my room asked me couple questions. Wasn't there 2 minutes. Saw the bill from that. $285.00 There was other crazy charges too. Drugs were were the worst priced thing. I can't remember the exact amount , but it was like $15,000. That was separte from the hospital bill. Same with rehab , that was about $25,000. Year later I get my back fixed to move a vert off my cord. $60,000 for an 8 or 9 hour surgery. The doctors bill was about $13,000. Sure I did my research and found the best neuro in Cleveland to do the op. What I driving at is the prices for health care is crazy in this country. Something has to change. Your better off to own nothing in this country. No house , nice cars , investments , nothing and then it's all free.
ken
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker - Rice Coal
Stove/Furnace Model: 75K - Bay Window - Direct Vent

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: bksaun On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:23 am

NO!

Bk
bksaun
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Hybrid, Gentleman Janitor GJ-6RSU/ EFM 700
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 503
Coal Size/Type: Pea Stoker/Bit, Pea or Nut Anthracite
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer/ EFM-Gentleman Janitor
Stove/Furnace Model: 503 Insert/ 700/GJ-62

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:28 am

Black_And_Blue wrote:The Collective, I see.


Simply throwing out WORDS that you assign a negative meaning too adds nothing to the debate, imo.

The dictionary definition of COLLECTIVE is:

Definitions of 'collective'
(kə-lĕḱtĭv)
The American Heritage® Dictionary- (4 definitions)
(adjective)

1. Assembled into or viewed as a whole.
2. Of, relating to, characteristic of, or made by a number of people acting as a group: a collective decision.


Nothing wrong with it. ;)
My opinion is that one of the major problems in this country has been the attempted over-simplification of complex issues into simple one or two word sound bites. Enough with SIMPLE! Some things in society are not that simple & some leaders are capable of understanding complex things!
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000


Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: TimV On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:51 am

Almost seems the folks that have acess to insurance thru work or better yet a nice cushy goverment job just say NO TO HEALTH CARE. :x
The poor grubbers like myself, self employed scrape for a Dollar Folks, would like to at least be able to buy a plan and have enough money left for groceries so we dont die of malnutrition before we can use our plan. :shock:
At some point we have to stop listening to the Rush Lamebrains on the radio trying to incite contempt for each other and figure out we are all being screwed by a systym that rewards only the takers and greedy.
Party lines are nice for non thinkers but its more than Blue versus Red state and Republican against Democrats..If you know history and can add up 2 + 2 and get 4 there might be some hope but we better start paying attention now.
The Government ( you and me) is not a bottomless pit full of money even if Washington thinks we are!
lets worry about USA before we worry about Iraq,Afganistan, Isreal,Palestine and a host of others who want us dead .
Fix our homeland then maybe help others .
TimV
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Older Ashley Cabinet ( pre US Stove gobble up)
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Energy King 480 EK
Coal Size/Type: Warm weather smaller coal. Cold weather larger coal.
Other Heating: Oil Furnace Backup when repairs are needed
Stove/Furnace Make: Energy King Furnace
Stove/Furnace Model: 480 EK

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: SuperBeetle On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:19 am

Some things do amaze me regarding healthcare. You can become an RN in 2 years and make more than someone who needs a BS in biology and an additional year of internship for a total of 5 years of training in order to be licensed. I am not knocking the RN's, I am just stating fact.
SuperBeetle
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark II
Coal Size/Type: Pea, Nut, & Stove Anthracite

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:53 am

Devil505 wrote:Health care should be handled the same way.....as a necessary societal expense to be paid COLLECTIVELY.


But and it's a big but, everytime the government starts sticking their nose into anything they inevitably make it worse. We end up with bloated political bureaucracy where jobs are handed out to whoever gave the largest donation and whoever will serve the politician the best. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? Need I say more? That's last thing we need is the government if you think its a mess now just give them the reins for few years and you really see what a mess it can be.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:03 pm

Richard S. wrote:But and tit's a big but, everytime the government starts sticking their nose into anything they inevitably make it worse. We end up with bloated political bureaucracy where jobs are handed out to whoever gave the largest donation and whoever will serve the politician the best


It doesn't have to be that way Richard. This is where I think setting strict Term Limits should be instituted. (I started a thread on that idea here <removed link yo FSC>)
While our reps will almost have to be forced into passing a term limit bill (for obvious reasons), if enough of us forced the issue, it could be done!
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: SuperBeetle On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:18 pm

Maye healthcare should be deregulated. Then it will get better and become cheaper kinda like the cable, phone, and electric did.

:doh:
SuperBeetle
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark II
Coal Size/Type: Pea, Nut, & Stove Anthracite

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Dann757 On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:36 pm

I too am one of the 20 years self-employed guys. I work for a self-made super rich family that made their fortune in the mortgage industry. They offered me a live-in position, salary, 401k, health insurance. The salary was not acceptable, and I know better than to become an owned servant. They are amazing people, but that kind of success can make people ego-driven and condescending. I always need a way out if customers piss me off; I was a caretaker in the 80's and learned that I don't have the personality to be controlled like that.
They go to the emergency room if they have a stomach flu or even if they're constipated.
I'm living low now, I blew out my pyloris muscle in my stomach last June. I was sanding the mahogany deck on their multi million dollar shore house; lifted my machine wrong and felt a pop. The pain got intense over the next few days. I was terrified that I had a hernia. If I had to go under the knife my life savings would have vanished instantly. The only doctor I trust was on vacation. I lived on Aleve for a week waiting for him, terrified that some surgeon would leave a golf glove in my guts... ( you must know by now i'm a little stubborn and prideful.)
I call his Medical Group office "The Golden Palace", a few years ago they put up a huge addition and even got their own traffic light. The sign out front is full of gold leaf lettering, thus "The Golden Palace." On the glass partition in the reception room, was a letter to the patients that said, "Due to administrative costs, ********* Medical Group insists that all patients provide us with stamped, self-addressed envelopes in case we need to mail you information." UNBELIEVABLE. The women behind the glass are the crankiest beat**es you can imagine, and almost yelled out, "This guy doesn't have insurance!!!!"
Dr. Joe saw me for five minutes, poked around and told me it's my pyloris muscle and only EIGHT WEEKS rest can heal it. He gave me a few Lydocaine patches. I was overjoyed. Rest I can almost afford. It was obviously an uncommon occurance at that office to take payment by credit card. $90 for five minutes care. And he gives me a price break.

In the meantime, my friend's 98 year old mother has fallen three times in the last two months at the Presbyterian assisted care living place across the street. Nice care they're giving her. Now she has been admitted to a local hospital with pneumonia, and my friend has to go feed her because the hospital staff doesn't bother. This hospital is overcrowded because the other local hospital has just closed after decades! Sorry for the long rant! You want to give me free health care? I'd like to see it.
Dann757
 

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:37 pm

Health care is expensive because the govt. got involved with it. Talk to some docs here in this country and the regulations are staggering. Thanks to tort reform, malpractice insurance is through the roof. Why can I take my dog to the vet for less than a $1000 and have a surgery performed in a sterile environment with cutting edge pain control by a doctor that went through six years of medical training that is insured? Because our government hasn't gotten involved with it yet. If I walk in to an emergency room it is $300 for just walking in. Then you have to wait behind all of the Crimigrants who are there for their free health care. Hawaii did free health care for kids with no medical insurance. What happened there was that people cancelled their insurance policies for their kids, after all the govt. was "giving it away" for free. Needless to say, the system was overwhelmed, and that program was cancelled. My friends mom lives in england and she had to wait 6 months to get an MRI. The state of W. Virginia has more MRI machines than all of Canada.

This "free" health care will be free to those who have nothing and pay nothing in taxes. Those of us who make the world go round are going to get screwed. The govt. can not give you something without first taking it away from you. My sister lives in France (France deserves her). Her son had a problem with his skull growing in wrong, and he was going to look like a clingon. The fine health care over there said it was cosmetic, and would not correct it. So she came to the US, had the surgery performed by a doc over here, declared bankruptcy and back off to france to talk crap about this country. Later she broke her arm, and their free healthcare fixed it. They did a great job, she can now get about 90 degrees of arc out of her elbow. Back to the USA to try to get it fixed, but to no avail. The doc in France really screwed it up. No recourse over there, you cannot sue the medical system. I am still laughing my a$$ off over here.

That being said, I am for all of these bailouts, free health care, open the borders, spend spend spend. I would rather see the inevitable collapse come sooner than later. I am young enough to rebuild from a total meltdown, but 15 years from now it will be more difficult.

Mike
Complete Heat
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: AA-130/FHA

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:40 pm

Devil505 wrote:It doesn't have to be that way Richard. !


If you believe that I have some waterfront property in Florida I want to sell you. If there is one thing the government has been good at is creating massive socialist programs that may very well start out with good intentions but inevitably fail, usually miserably.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:15 pm

Devil505 :

You clearly think you are entitled to confiscate the fruits of my labor for yourself or others in the name of (insert name of noble plan here.)

Your kind also believe you have rights beyond those which are enumerated in the Constitution of this country.

You have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These rights apply equally and protect me from undue coercion from forces you support.

I'm certain you will try to extrapolate your right to life includes free medical care at my expense, have at it, I'll check in to see how far you can stretch your imagination.
Black_And_Blue
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska 140

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Yanche On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:38 pm

SuperBeetle wrote:Some things do amaze me regarding healthcare. You can become an RN in 2 years and make more than someone who needs a BS in biology and an additional year of internship for a total of 5 years of training in order to be licensed. I am not knocking the RN's, I am just stating fact.
In what state can you become a licensed registered nurse (RN) in 2 years? In some states you can become a licensed practical nurse (LPN) in about 2 years but that's usually at a full time, 12 months per year residency program at a teaching hospital related facility. Programs like that are very limited and have been replaced with a junior or community college associated degree program plus in service apprentice training. These programs take more than 2 years, start to RN license in hand. Just because a person wears a nurses type uniform in a hospital doesn't make them a nurse.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:54 pm

Nurses have malpractice insurance too if that is the right word, I know my mother has it but she also works in OB.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: billw On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:27 pm

Yanche wrote:
SuperBeetle wrote:Some things do amaze me regarding healthcare. You can become an RN in 2 years and make more than someone who needs a BS in biology and an additional year of internship for a total of 5 years of training in order to be licensed. I am not knocking the RN's, I am just stating fact.
In what state can you become a licensed registered nurse (RN) in 2 years? In some states you can become a licensed practical nurse (LPN) in about 2 years but that's usually at a full time, 12 months per year residency program at a teaching hospital related facility. Programs like that are very limited and have been replaced with a junior or community college associated degree program plus in service apprentice training. These programs take more than 2 years, start to RN license in hand. Just because a person wears a nurses type uniform in a hospital doesn't make them a nurse.


Pennsylvania. The local community college has a two year RN program. It's intense, I have a niece going through it now. One of my sisters graduated there years ago.At the end of the day IF they pass the state tests they are an RN.
billw
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520
Stove/Furnace Model: GOODBYE OIL COMPANY