Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

I guess if you control what you eat and exercise you won't get fat? Oh yeah I forgot Lack of self control is now considered a disease it just has a lot of different names ADD and so forth. And as usual you have a lot of FAITH in stem cell research no matter who it kills.

Bill S.

Nothing the gov. ever does is cheaper. We keep trying to tell you that but you refuse to acknowledge it.

Oh come on Devil. Why use links to back up what everyone can see with your own eyes. I know many very overweight educated and well off people.

Overall, world wide there are pockets of people that live a healthier lifestyle then the average person in any country. Many of these pockets of people just happen to have a diet that is really healthy by accident not choice, and they also live in places where the work until they die. There are 4 such places that are being studied, Okinowa, Sicily, a group of Seventh Day Adventist near San Diego, and a group of people in Central America. They routinely live to be 100+. They do not have an education or wealth that makes them healthy, just a lifestyle. They also do not live near a McDonald's. In other words, it is not a gov. progam that is making them live so long. I bet the ones in San Diego, Okinowa, and Central America do not pay taxes to pay for someone elses healthcare, so they are relatively stress free!

Kevin

Any idea how much we have already spent with no cures for many diseases? I don't. You make it sound like the cure when found will be a simple pill that costs a few bucks and can be made out of bee *censored*. Most cures we are going to find now for complex diseases will be expensive even if the magic stem cell treatments are found. Face it Devil, you and I are going to die from something someday, we can't keep everyone alive forever.

OOOooooo, I can't wait for government run healthcare. It sounds so great. Just like MediCare......

Many people, just as they become eligible for Medicare, discover that the insurance rug has been pulled out from under them. Some doctors — often internists but also gastroenterologists, gynecologists, psychiatrists and other specialists — are no longer accepting Medicare, either because they have opted out of the insurance system or they are not accepting new patients with Medicare coverage. The doctors’ reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/busin ... ref=health

I guess if the doctors won't play ball, BHO will FORCE them to. Sounds "Christian" and American to me.

jpete wrote:No, you made your point perfectly fine.

Thanks...I wasn't sure I had.

jpete wrote:What's moral or "Christian" about stealing the fruit of my labor and forcing me at the point of a gun to pay for something that encourages sloth(isn't that a deadly sin?)

I'll leave the moral question up to each individual's moral judgments & values.As far as stealing "the fruit of my labor and forcing me at the point of a gun to pay"....that was made legal by The XVI Amendment, February 25, 1913.

jpete wrote:And what about the government leads you to believe that they will drive the cost down? When has that ever happened in the history of the world?

Many times...Just one example was the fruits of the U.S. Space program (a huge government funded program) that drastically reduced the costs of All consumer electronics from Hi Def TV to computers. Now that we are out of the scientific research "Dark Ages" of the last 8 years, I expect many great & cost savings discoveries in the health field.

jpete wrote:And what happens to me if I don't want to practice your and BHO's "once of prevention"? Are you going to imprison me?

Nope....Universal health care will simply be AVAILABLE & AFFORDABLE to you. (if you like what you have...you keep it)
But......who wouldn't want affordable health care??

jpete wrote:Altruism is nice in theory but I'm not buying it from you.

I've learned how to gracefully accept rejection.

We have a vaccine to prevent polio do people still get polio,how about measles,mumps,scarlet fever,most STD's. So even if they find cures what will change? A man's heart is desperaty wicked who can know it. It's all an excuse to control our lives and strip away more of our rights by you know who. If they would show some good on any thing they initiated that is working social security,medicare,welfare or the economy you may talk me into it. But failure after failure is they're outcome.


Bill S.

BillMarti wrote:We have a vaccine to prevent polio do people still get polio,

No

BillMarti wrote:how about measles,mumps,scarlet fever,most STD's

Rarely compared to b4 the vaccines

BillMarti wrote:So even if they find cures what will change?

The fewer sicknesses will lead to lower health care costs. Is that debatable?

BillMarti wrote:It's all an excuse to control our lives and strip away more of our rights by you know who.

Tell you what: After losing a Father & Sister to cancer....I'll gladly give up my "Right" to be stricken with it! (or any member of my family's "Rights."

Yes people still get polio I know somebody that died from it. And things have not changed STD's are running rampant. And many 90% of my relatives died from cancer and heart disease. There is much research that has been done over many years and many look promising but no magic bullet yet OH I forgot stem cell research will do it, sorry I don't have that much faith.

Bill S

BillMarti wrote:Yes people still get polio I know somebody that died from it. And things have not changed STD's are running rampant. And many 90% of my relatives died from cancer and heart disease. There is much research that has been done over many years and many look promising but no magic bullet yet OH I forgot stem cell research will do it, sorry I don't have that much faith.

Bill S

If your argument is that polio is anywhere near the danger it was when I was a kid (in the 1950's) you're full of you know what. As for the rest of you above arguments, they are ridiculous! Medicine has made major strides in the last 50 years & will continue to do so, which will increase life expectancy, quality of life & should lower overall health care costs, if handled intelligently with much of the GREED removed from the health care system.
Obviously people will still die of SOMETHING, but it's time that ....the country that landed men on the moon.......started to use our intelligence to provide better health care than Cuba or some nations in Africa.

I guess cancer,heart disease and especially AIDS got us pretty much whooped. That's what happens when pride takes over we think we can overcome anything and find out there are a lot worse things out there just lurking. There a over 1 million people with aids in the USA alone and climbing isn't that an epidemic or is that another thing our government hides that will tank free health care again because these people made a bad choice of promiscuity.

Bill S.

Devil505 wrote:I'll leave the moral question up to each individual's moral judgments & values.As far as stealing "the fruit of my labor and forcing me at the point of a gun to pay"....that was made legal by The XVI Amendment, February 25, 1913.

You brought it up.

Devil505 wrote:(letting an innocent child starve is immoral & Un-Christian........

Also, just because it's enshrined in "law", doesn't make it right. Slavery, blacks being 3/5 of a person, women (and blacks) not having a vote were all "law" at one time, but since they conflicted with "Natural Law", they were never "right". And forcing a person to pay for things which they find morally repugnant is slavery.

Devil505 wrote:Many times...Just one example was the fruits of the U.S. Space program (a huge government funded program) that drastically reduced the costs of All consumer electronics from Hi Def TV to computers. Now that we are out of the scientific research "Dark Ages" of the last 8 years, I expect many great & cost savings discoveries in the health field.

Oh, so all those billions we pumped into NASA gave me my $1200 HD TV? Sony, JVC and LG Corp had nothing to do with it? Seems to me that Richard Branson reached space a lot cheaper than NASA ever did.

Devil505 wrote: Nope....Universal health care will simply be AVAILABLE & AFFORDABLE to you. (if you like what you have...you keep it)
But......who wouldn't want affordable health care??

My health care is affordable. Why do I have to pay for yours? Or anyone elses? Why not let the market work? The doctor in New York proved he could do it. Are you saying the government knows better how to run his business than he does?

Dr. Knope, the author of “Concierge Medicine: A New System to Get the Best Healthcare,” has this kind of practice in Tucson. His patients sign a contract agreeing to pay $6,000 a year for individuals and $10,000 a year for couples. The fee covers office visits, physical exams and phone consultations, and Dr. Knope will meet patients in the emergency room, see them in the hospital and occasionally make house calls.

Seems like these doctors can make it work too. And it's cheaper than what I pay now. How many of those government doctors do you think will make house calls?

Face it Devil, the free market(a truly free market) ALWAYS does better than the government.

I was thinking about the NASA debt too but I chose not to go there talk about wasted money who's got realestate on the moon.
Defense I can see but the moon and space station no. We need to make things right here first before we go screw up another planet. But for arguments sake we have devil.

Bill S.

jpete wrote:You brought it up.

No I didn't...you did!: (...."I say no welfare for companies or individuals".....)

jpete wrote:What's moral or "Christian" about stealing the fruit of my labor and forcing me at the point of a gun to pay for something

jpete wrote:And forcing a person to pay for things which they find morally repugnant is slavery.

No it isn't. It's called Income Tax .....& was made perfectly legal by the 16th amendment & has beaten numerous challenges to it's Constitutionality in the SCOTUS.

jpete wrote:Oh, so all those billions we pumped into NASA gave me my $1200 HD TV?

Yes

jpete wrote:Sony, JVC and LG Corp had nothing to do with it?

They could never have come close without the vast U.S. Government, tax funded research programs that made the technology affordable for Sony to take advantage of.

jpete wrote:Seems to me that Richard Branson reached space a lot cheaper than NASA ever did.

Only because he used all of NASA's experience & discoveries. You don't seriously debate that, do you? (if so...I'm going to give you the Flat Earth Society url again! )

jpete wrote:My health care is affordable. Why do I have to pay for yours? Or anyone elses?

You already do pay for others when you pay your insurance premium..........& already pay you for all the illegal aliens that show up at ER's every day~!

jpete wrote:Why not let the market work?

We back at that crap?.....Because it doesn't work!!.....That's the whole point!

jpete wrote:Face it Devil, the free market(a truly free market) ALWAYS does better than the government.

In "Never Never Land" or in a novel somewhere it may work. In the real world??....Not so much

I've said all I'm going to say on this subject tonite. You have my opinion & you're free to have yours.

Devil505 wrote:I've said all I'm going to say on this subject tonite. You have my opinion & you're free to have yours.

Except mine isn't an opinion. Mine is based on research and FACTS. Not my "feeling" and regurgitation of what BHO told me.