Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:32 pm

Richard S. wrote:Nurses have malpractice insurance too if that is the right word, I know my mother has it but she also works in OB.


ALL medical personnel have malpractice insurance. My wife started her career as a surgical tech. The person who hands the doctors the tools. If the surgeon kills the patient, EVERYONE in the O.R. gets sued. Then she became an EMT and she also has malpractice insurance too. Plus, she has an electrology business too. More insurance there.

All the bogus lawsuits have made medical care overly expensive. Among other things, of course. But if the courts weren't so free with other people's money, we wouldn't be near where we are.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Machinist On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:40 pm

No! America should not have universal health care.
One problem with our current health care system is it is not a true capitalistic system.
If it were it would be much better.
One reason it's not capitalistic is health care insurance is mostly provided by employers.
So to find better health care care, most people have to change jobs.
But wait! An employee finds a nice job with nice health care insurance and the employer decides to change their heath care insurance to something not so nice. :mad:

Have a look at this John Stossel Video - Sick in America!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEXFUbSbg1I

We need a way to make health care in America capitalistic!
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:52 pm

Here we go again, the lawsuits are the problem. :baby: And I'm sure some insurance-industry "think tank" has got the stats to prove it. :roll: People here seem to like insurance companies they have no control over better than the gov't they elect. That just doesn't make sense. Or maybe it does.

TimV's onto something. If you're against "Universal Health Care," maybe you should tell us whether you have any health insurance now and, if so, how much you're actually paying for it (compared to your employer's premium).

Because "all politics is local." If you've got healthcare now and you're not carrying the bulk of the cost of it yourself, why would you want to change? That's just like a "free" government program, ain't it? :gee: Maybe you just don't want everybody else to have the same freebie you have. But I'd bet you wouldn't feel that way if you got laid off. And that's the point.

Here's the "Change" we voted for last November: just as employers had unfair leverage over employees before ERISA was passed in 1974 to guarantee that your retirement fund was "yours" and not some "gift" from your employer, these days people are indentured to their jobs by health insurance and "pre-existing conditions." (I know a divorce lawyer who's had to advise women to consider staying in bad marriages to keep the health insurance. :annoyed: ) That s#!t's gonna change. Whether it's all public, or a mandate among "qualified" choices, or some other design, universal healthcare is coming.

I'll even concede that, in order to get to a universal program, there ought to be some "qualified review" of malpractice claims before they can be brought to suit. But (a long time ago) I worked in a plaintiff's office and saw some malpractice claims that would outrage anybody -- and some of them didn't result in enough economic "damage" (like failure to even read a mammography report in the elderly) that they were even worth filing suit. (That, BTW, is where the contingent fee system protects the market, maybe too much so.) So the idea of limiting damages to, in effect, protect the ability of incompetent professionals to purchase insurance, is simply crazy -- and absolutely wrong. :down:
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: SuperBeetle On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:18 pm

In what state can you become a licensed registered nurse (RN) in 2 years?
I think all states
In some states you can become a licensed practical nurse (LPN) in about 2 years but that's usually at a full time, 12 months per year residency program at a teaching hospital related facility.


That can be done in 1 year.
Programs like that are very limited and have been replaced with a junior or community college associated degree program plus in service apprentice training. These programs take more than 2 years, start to RN license in hand
.

Actually there are quite a few of these programs. Trust me it can be done in 2 years.

Just because a person wears a nurses type uniform in a hospital doesn't make them a nurse.


I am aware of that. I worked in healthcare for over 20 years.
Last edited by SuperBeetle on Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:23 pm

stockingfull wrote: So the idea of limiting damages to, in effect, protect the ability of incompetent professionals to purchase insurance, is simply crazy -- and absolutely wrong. :down:


So here is the answer to that problem. "The Constitution". Period. End. If you deprive a person of their "Life, Liberty, or Pursuit of Happyness" then you should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Insurance wouldn't save you. Kill or injure a patient due to ineptness? Go to jail. That would solve that problem fairly quickly.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: BillMarti On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:41 pm

Sounds like the socialists want to circumvent the Constitution whatever the cost. Again I ask where's the money coming from our debt needs to go away first. To force everybody to pay for something is against the Constitution it gives ME the right to seek not you to force me. As long as the Constitution is in effect socialism is dead :clap: :clap:
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: hugg On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:59 pm

Yes, we need it. I think any person that is accuratly informed on the subject and has a reasonable capacity for rational thought would say YES. Heathcare should NOT be capitalistic. What exactly does that mean. If you dont have money, your kid gets sick, sorry no treatment for your kid. DIE. WTF. Heathcare should not be a FOR PROFIT INDUSTRY..............
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: av8r On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:03 pm

We're well on our way...Barry will see to that.

Black_And_Blue wrote:The Collective, I see.

"You Americans are so gullible. No, you won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism. We won’t have to fight you. We’ll so weaken your economy until you’ll fall like overripe fruit into our hands."

- Nikkita Khrushchev
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:14 pm

jpete wrote:
stockingfull wrote: So the idea of limiting damages to, in effect, protect the ability of incompetent professionals to purchase insurance, is simply crazy -- and absolutely wrong. :down:


So here is the answer to that problem. "The Constitution". Period. End. If you deprive a person of their "Life, Liberty, or Pursuit of Happyness" then you should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Insurance wouldn't save you. Kill or injure a patient due to ineptness? Go to jail. That would solve that problem fairly quickly.


I agree with you. There ought to be far more disciplinary actions and prosecutions of bad medical professionals. (But disciplinary and criminal sanctions cost money, so they don't often happen.) Bad medicine will go away when the people who make these mistakes can no longer afford insurance. By that I mean that their own insurers should make them -- not everybody else -- pay for the increased cost of insuring against the mistakes they've made. That truly would be the "free market" at work; bad docs simply wouldn't be able to afford insurance.

But isn't that exactly the scenario where Dubya was railing against "obstreticians not being able to practice their love" :rofl: because their insurance got so expensive? Why? Because their screw-ups came home in the form of loss payments, just like somebody who goes out in their car and has a bunch of accidents.

But no-o-o-o-o, when the "free market" works to the disadvantage of the insurance companies, then we need the government to help with "tort reform." It's deceptive marketing crap, plain and simple. :box:
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: SuperBeetle On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:20 pm

Personally I really have to wonder how many mistakes are covered up. I know it is done and done a lot. Some of the mistakes are simple and some are deadly. There is really no way to know.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: hugg On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:34 pm

There are many mistakes. My wife is a registered nurse that works in labor and delivery. The doctors are only human and do make mistakes. There are at times neglegent behavior by the doctors to. The heathcare system is a mess
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:34 pm

I can't tell you how many times I've seen cases where a doc failed to take ANY action whatsoever on a positive radiology report. NONE. Nada. Dropped it in the file, never called the patient..., metastasis..., patient croaks. :blowup:

People die because of this kind of BS. And let me tell you, if they're old, NOBODY does jack s#!t about it.

It's outrageous, inexcusable, and these people shouldn't be protected by the government capping damages in the few instances where they do it to somebody who has some dependents.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: billw On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:05 pm

Employer based health care has a lot of faults, ask GM. They spend more on health care than sheet metal. As an employee it's also filled with holes that aren't to apparent, well at least to me until it happened. I was with the same company for 20 years, fairly paid, decent benefits etc. Then I developed some major problems with my back and legs. Couldn't do the job any more. Just when I needed health insurance the most, it was gone. Cobra continuation was half of my disability check. Fortunately my wife was able to find full time employment with medical insurance so we didn't lose the house.

Everyone that gets laid off loses their medical insurance. My son is going through that now. He can't buy an individual policy because of a pre-existing condition. Cobra benefits are so dam high it's either buy them or eat. While I don't think the government can run our health care system better than the doctors, hospital administrators etc. There should be a way to insure that everyone, including the unemployed/underemployed has the ability to cover themselves without all of this pre-existing condition *censored*. Most people aren't looking for a handout but to be unable to buy insurance and left to either go bankrupt or die isn't much of a solution either.

If this society is willing to let individuals either eat or pay for health coverage then we need to get that 700 billion welfare payment to the banks back. After all capitalism is king. If we, as individuals, make a poor choice we have to deal with the consequences. They made their poor choices, now let them deal with the consequences. That's what capitalism is all about, isn't it?
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:11 pm

Thanks, bill.

While I share what I'm sure is everybody's sympathy for your family's situation, it just shouldn't be happening if we're, as we say we believe, "the greatest country in the world."

Adequate healthcare isn't a privilege, it should be a birthright in a country as great as ours.

And soon it will be.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: billw On: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:17 pm

No problem stockingfull. I went back to school and got my accounting degree. Now I sit everyday and count other people's money. The job sucks but I pay my way again and I've got insurance one more time. My son will get through his unemployment. He's not alone. I think 3 million in 2008 and if the economists are right it will be a lot more in 2009-2010.
My whole point was universal health care sucks when you've got a good job and decent benefits but it can be gone in a flash and then you're screwed.
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