Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:17 pm

My wife is an RN also so I asked her about the length of school & she did it in two years but said that doing 60 credits in two years is really too hard for most & the drop out rate is extremely high. She also has to carry the malpractice ins. As for her wages I don`t think they make enough when you consider if they make a mistake it could cost someone`s life, all the crap they are exposed to, the hours worked. Shewas an ER nurse for most of her career & like she said you don`t see too many older nurses the job is very physical. I know I was making alot more than her as a steelworker, if I screwed up it cost a lot of money to the company but most likely wouldn`t have harmed anyone.
samhill
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: av8r On: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:42 pm

How about a new thread for all the RN discussion?

I asked my friends in the UK how they liked their health care system and how the general public views it. They said it's a love hate. They love that it is generally free, but hate it when people die because they could not get in to see a specialist in an expeditious manner.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: kootch88 On: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:43 pm

Hey guys, start a new topic on RN qualifications if you want. This topic is Should the USA have Unieversal healthcare.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:46 pm

stockingfull wrote:
Black_And_Blue wrote:From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.



WWJD, right? 8-)


Jesus wouldn't put a gun to your head and demand your labor.

You can perform charitable acts and donate to these causes, there is virtue and benefit in that transaction.

Socialism/Collectivism demands participation against your free will.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Duengeon master On: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:55 pm

I will only accept government healthcare if I am not REQUIRED to be in it. And if I am not in it I shouldn't have to pay for it either. I like my insurance just fine. I get sick, I go to the doctor, I get cured no problem. If it ain't broke for me don't fix it for me. YOU can be part of the the collective if you choose, but free men and women are not part of a collective. I choose not. :)
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: stockingfull On: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:00 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:
stockingfull wrote:
Black_And_Blue wrote:From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.



WWJD, right? 8-)


Jesus wouldn't put a gun to your head and demand your labor.

You can perform charitable acts and donate to these causes, there is virtue and benefit in that transaction.

Socialism/Collectivism demands participation against your free will.


No, it would be what he would do (that's what WWJD means, after all :hammer: ) and what he would expect of you.

As to the so-called "gun to your head," have you ever heard of "tithing?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe Not always voluntary.... :roll:
stockingfull
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:22 pm

I think universal care is getting to be about the only choice we`ll have. It`s going to be greed that puts us trere, from the doctors that put people on meds not so much because they need it but because the docs get kick backs from the drug co.
Just about every time I`ve been in a doctors office a drur rep. comes in & drops off a bunch of goodies for the office. And a whole lot of the biggest doctors don`t even practice themselves, they have a few offices with young staff working in their place. The insurance co.s are just as bad, there for you to pay your premiums & turn there backs when you need them. A lot of the ins. co.s play doctor and deny medical care that the doc.s want give. It`s a broken system that was broken from with-in due to greed. Next time you get stopped at a train crossing watch the cars going by, all most all owned by ins.co.s or banks.
samhill
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: av8r On: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:14 pm

I asked for some specifics...this from a buddy:

My father (in Canada) is coughing up blood. He spent 2 weeks in ICU last year with this problem. He was ordered to have an EMERGENCY CT scan to try and diagnose thus problem. He was able to make an appointment for the end of February. There will be no direct bill to them for this service.

My mother-in-law had a lump discovered in her breast, an EMERGENCY mammogram took 6 months to get. Once it was diagnosed as cancer it took 3 months to get an appointment with an oncologist.

My wife needed both CT scans and routine mammography, she could get same day appointments, without insurance the cost was 2 x $20 co-pays.

People die with Universal healthcare. People go bankrupt with uninsured healthcare.
av8r
 
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: kootch88 On: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:22 pm

av8r,

Would your relatives rather have a system something like ours or a hybrid of theirs and ours or theirs as it is? My relatives in Quebec have complaints about their system too, some similar to what you have posted, but over all, they would not trade theirs ofr ours, but would like some modifications to get quicker service.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:36 pm

Under a "Universal" care system the only way to reduce costs IS to restrict access. This is why your relatives and friend anecdotes all sound the same. You simply cannot decrease costs and increase access at the same time.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:59 am

The way you decrease the price of anything is to have more than what you need, can be purchased or used. I believe thats why coal is a good alternative right now since there are just not a lot of us that burn it and there seems to be people that want to sell it. So now what needs to happen is we need more doctors, nurses and hospitals. the other thing is to cut cost and one way to cut the cost of health care is to just get rid of insurance companies. I don't know to many doctors that wouldn't froth at the mouth if they were able to just collect all that there patients pay to the insurance companies. I don't know how many patients a doctor sees anymore but they do have a pretty good assembly line set up. So there you go, more doctors, nurses and hospitals and cut out the middle man called insurance companies. Everyone sleeps good and nobody is forced to take universal health care. Now if I could just figure out someway of getting out of this dang universal bailout thats taken all the money for the doctors, nurses and Hospitals that we could of built. So glad I was able to just say no to that one.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: stockingfull On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:37 am

Actually, the one thing the HMO's have proved (and made billions of profit in the process) is that by far the best way to reduce costs is to get people regular preventative care.

Regular physicals and early diagnostics vastly reduce the number of acute problems that people have to wait in line for.
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Freddy On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:02 am

I dunno....maybe sit back & watch Maine. We have "Maine Care". Forced down our throats by the governor a few years ago. Every person that can not afford health insurance, get's it for free. It's paid for in several different ways. One of the ways is that ALL health insurance policies now carry a 3% "tax" and that 3% goes to Mainecare. It's underfunded, overused, slow to pay, and generally pisses off the Dr's and hospitals, BUT, the people that are on it love it. I don't know if we're first in the nation or not, but come on, empty your bank account & move to Maine, we'll treat ya right!
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Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: JohnMck On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:35 am

Let me check my Constitution,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Nope, nothing about healthcare.
JohnMck
 

Re: Should the USA have Universal Healthcare??

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:37 am

Duengeon master wrote:I will only accept government healthcare if I am not REQUIRED to be in it. And if I am not in it I shouldn't have to pay for it either.


True universal care couldn't work that way, everyone has to pay for it or it won't work. Going back to that PBS show I beleive there was three main points that made it work to some degree.

  • Mandatory involvement by everyone including patients, doctors and the hospitals.
  • They reduced administration costs significantly.
  • Fixed prices for treatment, drugs, procedures,equipment etc.

I think instead of going that route we really need tort and insurance reform. There's lots of people out there willing to pay for it as long as the costs are reasonable. It's already been mentioned by a few people in this thread that they had insurance but had to drop it. I know when I got out of high school the premium on the BC&BS plan I had was less than $100. It wasn't exactly cheap but attainable. That was back in 1990. As I understand it now that same plane is like $500 which of course is not something someone coming out of HS can afford EVEN if they could get on it.
Richard S.
 
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