US Approaching Point of No Return?

stockingfull wrote:The sky is not falling. We had an election -- as fair an election as we've ever had, and a lot fairer than some. The choice the electorate made in that election was for a course change and that's what we're going to get. That's exactly why we have elections.

For some, that course change may seem to be toward a cliff. For many of us, it's away from one. Only time will tell whether one path is much better or worse than the other.

But the speculation about fundamental "societal breakdowns" is pretty loony, especially considering that the ship hasn't left the dock yet.

The sky is not falling.

Stockingfull...
My belief that we are an empire in serious decline has nothing to do with the election or pres-elec Obama. IMO, it's due to a breakdown of the social, moral and ethical fabric of our country. I could list a hundred examples but don't have the energy right now. I also think it's virtually irreversable. We are self destructing and will eventually collapse from within.

On those cheery notes, I think I'll check the "My Favorite Brewery" thread and get a recommendation for a new beer to try tonight.

coalkirk wrote:On those cheery notes, I think I'll check the "My Favorite Brewery" thread and get a recommendation for a new beer to try tonight.

Now that's the..., ahem..., "spirit"!

[/quote]On those cheery notes, I think I'll check the "My Favorite Brewery" thread and get a recommendation for a new beer to try tonight.[/quote]


I like the 75% rum, 10% ice, 15% coke myself.

The U.S. is going nowhere. I am Canadian, you know that barren wasteland to the North. We aren't going anywhere either. We may disagree, sometimes agree, sometimes downright pissed off, BUT, we have the longest unarmed, semi protected border in the world. We are wealthy, we are smart, we will do OK. 200 hundred years from now our kids will still whine about the same things. We both would be a h*ll of a lot better off without bloody politicians who feel they must say or do something just to keep the mugs out there. Sit back, have a beer and relax.

Robby

them Canadians have great beer and fishing too.

Hell yeah, ice fishing about now.

Hmmm, I wonder if there are any coal stoves at the bottom of any of them lakes up there....

coalkirk wrote:

Stockingfull...
My belief that we are an empire in serious decline has nothing to do with the election or pres-elec Obama. IMO, it's due to a breakdown of the social, moral and ethical fabric of our country. I could list a hundred examples but don't have the energy right now. I also think it's virtually irreversible. We are self destructing and will eventually collapse from within.

On those cheery notes, I think I'll check the "My Favorite Brewery" thread and get a recommendation for a new beer to try tonight.

I could not agree more, there it a tidal wave of those lined up with their hand out, millions who feel the government it there to cushion every stubbed toe along the way. There is no possible way our GDP can finance this. Look at the billions in treasure notes we've sold every week over the years, kidding ourselves in to believing we can maintain this standard of living forever.

The Fall of Democracy
When the thirteen colonies were still a part of England, Professor Alexander Tyler wrote about the fall of the Athenian republic over two thousand years previous to that time:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence:
from bondage to spiritual faith,
from spiritual faith to great courage,
from courage to liberty,
from liberty to abundance,
from abundance to selfishness,
from selfishness to complacency
from complacency to apathy,
from apathy to dependency,
from dependency back to bondage.

Study the list carefully, what stage do you think we are at?

Maybe the better question is whether there are any examples of societies who, recognizing the progression you posit, have been able to reverse, halt or retard that progression in any way.

stockingfull wrote:Maybe the better question is whether there are any examples of societies who, recognizing the progression you posit, have been able to reverse, halt or retard that progression in any way.

If you know of any such examples, you should not be shy with sharing them. The President-elect and any and all subsequent presidents vitally need that information. I just can't think of a single example.

The fact that we have the audacity to think we're somehow the "cop" of the world just shows how arrogant we are as a people. That arrogance has a price and we're reaping it now, with more to come IMO.
I don't like it, but we're getting what we deserve. The government's attempts to stave this off is more arrogance. Let it break down so it can be rebuilt correctly or at least without all the crap.

billw wrote:I don't think the US will disintegrate but I think the American empire is about over much the same as the British, French, Spanish and Roman empires before it. We are rapidly approaching a time when we can no longer have a military presence in over 100 countries or be the cop of the world. We'll take our place as just one of many countries instead of the world's only super power much as we were prior to WW2.

coalmeister wrote:[ The Fall of Democracy
[i]When the thirteen colonies were still a part of England, Professor Alexander Tyler wrote about the fall of the Athenian republic over two thousand years previous to that time:

That was a true democracy that lasted about 150 years. If you study it, you will wonder why it didn't fail in a week. In a trial the jury was made up of just about every breathing soul that lived in the area that wasn't accused. How well could something like that work?

coalmeister wrote:


The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence:
from bondage to spiritual faith,
from spiritual faith to great courage,
from courage to liberty,
from liberty to abundance,
from abundance to selfishness,
from selfishness to complacency
from complacency to apathy,
from apathy to dependency,
from dependency back to bondage.

Study the list carefully, what stage do you think we are at?

The future is not set in stone. History may teach us that empires have followed this magical formula and democracy can’t last but the future is not yet determined. In order to get elected many politicians have made promises that have led us down this road of welfare. This is very true. However is there a chance that maybe, just maybe, people will start helping themselves out of this mess rather then waiting for the government to help? Could a few no nonsense leaders come along and changes things? Who knows. Bottom line is in the past 100 years there have been several opportunities for this thing of ours to crumble yet we and those before us have found ways out of the bleakest of times.

billlindley wrote:However is there a chance that maybe, just maybe, people will start helping themselves out of this mess rather then waiting for the government to help?

Bill, I like your positive attitude. You are a real the glass is half full guy. But the above will happen when..........

The victim mentallity started mostly among blacks but has spread througout the population where it seems everybody thinks the gov'ment owes them something. I hope you are right.

stockingfull wrote::gee: Maybe the better question is whether there are any examples of societies who, recognizing the progression you posit, have been able to reverse, halt or retard that progression in any way.

Not without removing the greed factor, so don't hold your breath.

Case in point: Even as the Detroit automakers are going down in flames, the UAW is standing strong, give us your tax dollars you hardworking suckers, but don't expect concessions from us.

coalkirk wrote:How about this story?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090112/ap_ ... lifornia_3

Here's a good one too.....looks like California is insolvent. They'll be issuing IOU's shortly instead of tax refunds.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... 4&refer=us