US Approaching Point of No Return?

Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:47 pm

coalkirk wrote:The victim mentallity started mostly among blacks but has spread througout the population where it seems everybody thinks the gov'ment owes them something. I hope you are right.


:what: You're not serious in saying that, are you?

Are you seriously arguing that a race of people that were captured, brought here, bred, sold and owned against their free will somehow are responsible for germinating some kind of "laziness" that's now infecting the rest of the population? bop2

Because, you know, a lot of them got parting gifts when they left their jobs...

Necklaces...

Rope necklaces.

One of the most astonishing delusions we have propagated in my lifetime is that it's the Germans, or the Turks (vis-a-vis the Armenians) who have committed "genocide," while our treatment of blacks and native Americans is swept under the carpet. If there ever were two more subjugated races of people in human history, I'd like to know who they were.

And now we're blaming them for "showing us" how not to be motivated? Guess it would be a more credible argument if you'd remembered to include the Injuns. :annoyed:
stockingfull
 
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: coalkirk On: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:56 pm

stockingfull wrote:You're not serious in saying that, are you?

Are you seriously arguing that a race of people that were captured, brought here, bred, sold and owned against their free will somehow are responsible for germinating some kind of "laziness" that's now infecting the rest of the population?


I'm talking about black people today, not former slaves. They were victims. Saying that blacks today have a victim mentallity that holds them back are not my words, but the words of Dr. Alvin Poussaint and Bill Cosby in their new book, Come on People. It's not laziness but a feeling that the government owes them something.
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:25 am

Pretty broad brush, don't you think?

Like "Micks" being drunks or fighters, "Polocks" being stupid, "Wops" being Mafia, and so on, the racial and ethnic generalizations are way out of date. They debase what otherwise might be a useful conversation about human motivation and the factors influencing it.
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:55 am

If the brush is too broad in characterizing blacks, then why would we need encompassing affirmative action laws to solve black problems as if they were all painted in the same way? Painting with a broad brush is discrimination, no doubt. So then, why does the left insist on laws that discriminate? Affirmitive action is just discrimination by another name.

The solution doesn't match the problem. It never has.

Bill Cosby and myriad other Black Americans have spoken out on the deterioriation of the black family and the disintegration of black society, particularly as it applies to black men/boys. They are often overlooked in the media because it isn't the desired focus of the media. The best thing about Obama for all of society is his strong family values and his Christian example. Pity that the left won't recognize such things in others without sneering.

I refer you all to machosauceproductions on youtube for some great video from a young black man who has it all together socially, politically and economically.
Last edited by mikeandgerry on Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:56 am

The destruction of social values is something that the left will never recognize. Afterall it was they who wanted, welcomed and committed the destruction.

For those of us who do think the sky is falling...it is. The problem isn't the last election cycle as our myopic adversaries would suggest, but rather the systematic dismantling of our society by left wing baby boomers which is now coming to fruition. It is a process of decay from the largesse of relative wealth and leisure. Idle hands are the tools of evil. The arrogance of one generation is destroying the wisdom of millennia.

Life is no joke. It is a constant struggle to survive and to procreate. It is the duty of the strong cultures to thrive. For those who think our culture is strong, upon the realization of our demise, you will yearn for the dogma of days goneby.

Having been abdicated by European descendents, the future of western culture lies in the hands of traditional self-respecting "procreators" from other lands, races and cultures. I pray for their success in rejecting the foolish left and carrying the best of the west into the future. Rejecting Prop 8 was a good start.
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: coalkirk On: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:02 am

stockingfull wrote:Pretty broad brush, don't you think?

Like "Micks" being drunks or fighters, "Polocks" being stupid, "Wops" being Mafia, and so on, the racial and ethnic generalizations are way out of date. They debase what otherwise might be a useful conversation about human motivation and the factors influencing it.


There are more black families working their way up the social/economic ladder than at any time in my life. Huge numbers have become part of the great middle class and I celebrate that. A black man (almost) is being sworn in as president in less than a week. But that's not the story for the majority of blacks, especially urban blacks. More than 50% of urban black households are single parent. Fathers are absent and uninvolved. High school drop out rate among blacks in Baltimore is over 50%. Yes I painted with a broad brush because that's what the landscape here calls for. I don't know what is looks like in the Hudson Valley but come to Baltimore for a day and have your eyes opened. There is a pervasive victim mentallity. The ones who have broken out of that mold don't have it. That's one of the main reasons they have made. They arn't waiting for the government to do something for them. They've taken responsibility for their lives. As long as the vitim mentallity prevails in the black community, I'll have to use that broad brush because it paints reality.
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:33 am

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racist

And it's all the more offensive since it was our ancestors who lynched the black men who "quit" :roll: their jobs. In fact, "our race" quite literally bred pacivity into "their race," which "our race" had the power to do because, um, "our race" owned "their race." And that is the fundamental basis for affirmative action. (Worth noting in this context is that our incoming President's highly-motivated father came directly from Africa and thus was never subject to the selective breeding process which occurred for, oh, 300 or so years in this country. Lessee, how many generations is that? :gee: )

So to complain now about the historic motivation level of blacks as a race is not only "racist" by definition but actually acknowledges the systemic racism which has formed the basis for affirmative action programs.

And it's shameful.
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:56 am

Get back on the topic as how this pertains to the economic conditions of this country or it will be locked.
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: billlindley On: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:21 am

Regardless of race you can achieve and succeed if you work hard in this country period. The US can rebound, there just needs to be a catalyst and perhaps this recession is the answer. If more young people, and older folks for that matter, decided to truly work hard then many of this country’s problem could be solved. The problem is that not enough young people know what working hard is whether it is due to poor examples by their parents, no parents or their environment. Too many people use their childhoods or some life altering experience as a crutch thru which they basically give up living in a sense.

Let me give you a personal story which is true and honest. I grew up in the “ghetto” off southwest Philadelphia. This is not the Philadelphia you see on TV but the Philadelphia you are scared to drive thru. Childhood was very tough and while I was considered to be “smart” by my teachers I was too “smart” for my own good. I felt bored in school and thru a combination of some personal and family problems I dropped out of high school. I found myself one night as a young, broke 18 year old little punk stocking shelves during the midnight shift at a Pathmark in the area. I thought to myself, “Is this it?” My life was not turning out they way it was supposed to. That single moment made me realize life was not over and if I worked hard and got back on track things could get better. So I went took the joke of a GED exam and passed it. This of course wasn’t enough to really change things so I busted my butt and took a job as customer service rep, worked full time and took college classes when I wasn’t working. I lost touch with some of my friends and gave up a lot to get where I am at. Where am I now? I proudly hold a Bachelor’s Degree in Accounting, I am studying to become a CPA, Graduated Magna *censored* Laude, and currently I work as an Accountant for a Fortune 500 company.

It was only 9 short years ago I had that moment. Now while I don’t condone the path I chose it shows that with hard work you can over come anything. The country just needs the light bulb to shine. Let’s hope Obama can be that catalyst.
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:03 am

Hats off to you Bill, thats the kind of story that makes this country great. I`m old so I can remember going with my mother to get surplus food in bad times, sure it was a form of welfare if you think of it. But no one that I know of from that time would accept that as a way of life. If people don`t have any self esteme & elect to live off welfare for generations are only enslaveing thereselves.
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:33 pm

Great story, Bill. :clap:

Shows that motivation, whether lacking it or somehow finding it, is as individual as each person in the country is. :idea:
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: coalkirk On: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:02 pm

rac·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
Function: noun
Date: 1933
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

stockingfull wrote:And it's all the more offensive since it was our ancestors who lynched the black men who "quit" their jobs. In fact, "our race" quite literally bred pacivity into "their race," which "our race" had the power to do because, um, "our race" owned "their race." And that is the fundamental basis for affirmative action. (Worth noting in this context is that our incoming President's highly-motivated father came directly from Africa and thus was never subject to the selective breeding process which occurred for, oh, 300 or so years in this country. Lessee, how many generations is that? )

So to complain now about the historic motivation level of blacks as a race is not only "racist" by definition but actually acknowledges the systemic racism which has formed the basis for affirmative action programs.

And it's shameful.


NOTE TO RICHARD: This is on topic as it purports to show how the disfunction in the black commuity is one of the links in the chain that is leading this country to economic ruin.

Stockingfull...First of all, maybe your ancestors lynched blacks and owned slaves but mine didn't. My ancestors were poor immigrants who came here in the late 19th century and worked hard to get ahead.
I assume your webster definition of racist was meant to apply to me. I won't respond in kind. I guess I'm in good company because here's the men who said blacks have a victim mentality that holds them back.
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You should read the book.

Guess who also said blacks should get off of welfare because it makes them lazy? No, not George Bush. Give up?





Malcolm X

You are burdened with "white guilt" which is making you not able to see that the disfunction in the black community today is coming from within that community, not from whites. Change comes slowly and I acknowledge that. But people have to participate in their own success and take responsibility for their own failures. Playing the victim and blaming whites for all their problems just doesn't hold water any longer.

A culture that shuns getting an education as "acting white" isn't going to make it.
A culture that celebrates "baby-mommas" isn't going to make it.
A culture that embraces the "thug life" isn't going to make it.
The list goes on and on. The cost to society of these is staggering. I want black people to make it, to succeed. When they become on balance contributors to the society instead of a burden to it, we all will benefit.

I'm not a racist but I will not lie to myself about the pervasive problems in the black community that are their own fault. Enough with the slave excuse.....the victim mentality for failure. The playing field has been leveled and even pitched in their direction with things like affirmative action and set asides.
Come on people.
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: LeonMSPT On: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:16 am

We live in "interesting times". That is said in the most "eastern" way... the character for "interesting" in Chinese is a combination of two others... "danger" and "opportunity".

If the people running around with BDS, "Bush Derangement Syndrome" can get over things long enough to take a breath and roll up their sleaves... and the revisers of history can take some time to do the same thing, we might pull this off. If we spend the next four years fighting over the last eight, we're doomed.

It's time for people to quit being stupid about this stuff and get to work.

I wasn't a Obama supporter. I didn't trust the guy, and I am still skeptical. But he's my President now. I will support him where I can, oppose him where I must, and ignore what I am able to for faults and problems.

I'd really like him to leave my guns and money, and my coal, alone.

Work harder? I can't, I am working as hard as I can. Pay more in taxes? I can't, I am already strapped and pay more than I should.
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:43 am

So, it's now official that California is bankrupt and no one will be getting a tax refund, SSI, tuition grants, subsidized housing etc.

So I ask, if this model of governance is a complete failure at a State level, what prospects for success does it have Nationally?

It's predictable, any Government solution is always to make it bigger and add more controls.

The truth is, the answers is quite small and rests within the individual and free choice.

Relinquish the latter at your own peril.
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:33 pm

coalkirk wrote:Stockingfull...First of all, maybe your ancestors lynched blacks and owned slaves but mine didn't. My ancestors were poor immigrants who came here in the late 19th century and worked hard to get ahead.
I assume your webster definition of racist was meant to apply to me. I won't respond in kind.


No ancestor of mine ever lived south of Frederick, MD to my knowledge, nor had anything to do with slave ownership, so I have no more reason to feel personal guilt than your background gives you.

But, if we're going to use race labels in any aspect of this discussion, "our race" enslaved the "black race" and thus is responsible for making that right. On the other hand, if we get away from racial and ethnic labels, we can proceed to the next level of the discussion, which is where we examine the motivation of individuals to reach their potential as a society evolves.

If I'm not mistaken, you are the one who brought the generalization regarding race into this thread. So, if the shoe fits, wear it.
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