US Approaching Point of No Return?

US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:37 pm

County by county election results map:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/po ... nties.html


Interesting Statistics



Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law,
St. Paul, Minnesota, points out facts of 2008 Presidential election:



Number of States won by:
Democrats: 19
Republicans: 29

Square miles of land won by:
Democrats: 580,000
Republicans: 2,427,000

Population of counties won by:
Democrats: 127 million
Republicans: 143 million

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Democrats: 13.2
Republicans: 2.1


Professor Olson adds:
"In aggregate, the map of the territory Republican won by Republicans
was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country.

Democrat territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in
government-owned tenements and living off various forms of
government welfare.


Professor Olson believes the United States is now somewhere
between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's
definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's
population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.


If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal
invaders called illegal's and they vote, then we can say goodbye to
the USA in fewer than five years

__________________________________________________________________

And, from the Jan 12, 2009 Newsweek, Perspectives :


There is a 55-45 percent chance right now that disintegration will occur. --Igor Panarin, dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's diplomatic academy, predicting the demise of the United States by 2010
mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M

Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: billlindley On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:34 pm

There is a 55-45 percent chance right now that disintegration will occur. --Igor Panarin, dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's diplomatic academy, predicting the demise of the United States by 2010
[/quote]

The only reason people are even talking about Igor Panarin is because of the current state of the US and Global economy.

If you read into his theory the US will get broken up with Russia taking Alaska back, California and the surrounding states going to China, Hawaii to Japan, Texas will become part of Mexico along with Florida and the rest of the Southwest. O and Canada is going to just mosy in and take over the remaining Lousianna purchase that Mexico didn’t get. The northeast (most of the original 13 colonies) well back to England of course.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 0709638419

Seems a little absurd to me. I mean the American people will still in a sense be the American People right? Do you think we would just let these other countries come in and take over? I mean the members on this board alone could probably at least defeat Canada and the states they were going to take.

Is America in trouble? Yes?
Is the economy going to get worse? Yes
Are there more bad times ahead? Yes

We have faced tough times before. Think Oil Embargo, previous deep recessions, WWII, the real Great Depression, WWI, Civil War, Etc. There are always tough times but we get through them. The only real difference between this crisis and many previous crisis’ is the widespread media coverage that can be presented in ways to scare everyone to death or to let everyone think things are better then they are. Things are bad but I would bet we will be fighting aliens before the USA simply folds.

Fact of the matter is if you search long enough you can always find someone who predicts what ever happens before it happens. Follow that? Heck even I talked about the economy collapsing under the weight of the housing bubble. Most friends and co-workers thought I was crazy.
billlindley
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading
Stove/Furnace Model: Lehigh RS-96

Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:57 pm

The point I was making is that there is growing speculation about social disintegration, not impending invasions by other countries due to political or military disintegration.

A country divided will not stand.

Certainly, there are tough times ahead....but how far ahead? I felt the warnings to be a bit pre-mature. But who knows?
mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M


Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:41 pm

So in the places where there are people Obama won. McCain won the places that are sparsely populated.

I'm not sure what the point is? McCain handily wins a county in Nevada (say Elko), it's 17,000 square miles,It makes a huge red smear on the map, but the whole population of Elko is that of a small town (50,000) it's got 3 people per square mile. By the same token Hartford County is a few pixels on the map (700 square miles), but it has 900,000 people living in it, it's got 1200 people per square mile.

People vote.
ErikLaurence
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading Lehigh
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: billw On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:12 pm

I don't think the US will disintegrate but I think the American empire is about over much the same as the British, French, Spanish and Roman empires before it. We are rapidly approaching a time when we can no longer have a military presence in over 100 countries or be the cop of the world. We'll take our place as just one of many countries instead of the world's only super power much as we were prior to WW2.
billw
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520
Stove/Furnace Model: GOODBYE OIL COMPANY

Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:03 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:A country divided will not stand.


There has always been a deep division in this country of one kind or another, even during the American Revolution.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: billlindley On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:30 am

billw wrote:I don't think the US will disintegrate but I think the American empire is about over much the same as the British, French, Spanish and Roman empires before it. We are rapidly approaching a time when we can no longer have a military presence in over 100 countries or be the cop of the world. We'll take our place as just one of many countries instead of the world's only super power much as we were prior to WW2.


I agree with this. I think every "empire" eventually "falls." I think if history has tought us anything though it's that the world is much differant then it was when prior "empires" fell. People are mI agree with this. I think every "empire" eventually "falls." I think if history has thought us anything though it's that the world is much different then it was when prior "empires" fell. People are more sophisticated and integrated globally. The USA is not going to be taken over by another country or have an all out civil war. All this map really shows is that many farmers with large amount of land in the Midwest voted for Mccain and people living on top of each other in Metro areas voted for Obama.

The USA will change and possibly not be the lone “superpower” but we are not going to wake up one day and Have democrats facing off against republicans in skirmish’s throughout the country. I haven’t done it but it would be interesting to see how previous elections where broken out based on the criteria for this past election.
ore so
billlindley
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading
Stove/Furnace Model: Lehigh RS-96

Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:11 am

There are some political grass fires burning, keep an eye on Texas, there are rumblings there.

There is already an exodus from California, the productive citizens are tired of producing for everyone else, once the "free stuff" stops flowing you could see riots like what followed the Rodney King trial in the early 90's.

Economically speaking, every hour of every day the fiat paper in your wallet is being devalued by the runaway presses at the Federal Reserve.

Globally, there will be a move to consolidate power and currency. If allowed to pass the destruction of the U.S. Constitution will be complete.
Black_And_Blue
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska 140

Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: kootch88 On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:33 am

Black_And_Blue wrote:There are some political grass fires burning, keep an eye on Texas, there are rumblings there.

There is already an exodus from California, the productive citizens are tired of producing for everyone else, once the "free stuff" stops flowing you could see riots like what followed the Rodney King trial in the early 90's.

Economically speaking, every hour of every day the fiat paper in your wallet is being devalued by the runaway presses at the Federal Reserve.

Globally, there will be a move to consolidate power and currency. If allowed to pass the destruction of the U.S. Constitution will be complete.


And I am guessing you can substantiate what you just said? I have not heard of any mass exodus of industry or population from California and this consolidation of power you speak of, clarify that. WHO is consolidating power and how? The UN? That is a joke, they can't even stop Israel and Hamas. Is itthe secret Skull Society? I really don't see what you base your opinion on. And how does Rodney King relate to this? Obviously the black community and the LAPD were at odds, but there were othe reasons for the ultimate riots besides the acquittal of the cops who beat King.
kootch88
 
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading
Stove/Furnace Model: Lehigh

Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: coalkirk On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:54 am

How about this story?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090112/ap_on_re_us/fleeing_california_3
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: kootch88 On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:00 am

coalkirk wrote:How about this story?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090112/ap_on_re_us/fleeing_california_3
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Good article, but even in the article it discusses this having happened before, when the economy truns sour, so we can expect the exact same migration back in again when home prices come down some and industry atarts to roll again, at least per that article.
kootch88
 
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading
Stove/Furnace Model: Lehigh

Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: billlindley On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:44 am

I read that article a few days ago as well. I wouldn't call it a movement to seperate from the US but talented people are moving elsewhere. Hope they come to PA. I will tell you I am often amazed at the lack of knowledge and skills people have these days. I mean this generation (25-35), which I am part off, is very troubled. There is no motivation, no skill, and no idea of what is really going on out there. If all these people are located in California and are leaving please bring them east. We could use the talent.
billlindley
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading
Stove/Furnace Model: Lehigh RS-96

Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: kootch88 On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:03 pm

I think the talent is still there with the "next generation" but I find in hiring the work ethic is not there in most cases, the discipline or understanding of what the real world is about. There is also a huge priority void with them. It doesn't have to be fatal, but it is very difficult to work around. I ussually hire younger folks in entry level positions and feel I have to groom them much more so with every passing year.
kootch88
 
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading
Stove/Furnace Model: Lehigh

Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:35 pm

The sky is not falling. We had an election -- as fair an election as we've ever had, and a lot fairer than some. The choice the electorate made in that election was for a course change and that's what we're going to get. That's exactly why we have elections.

For some, that course change may seem to be toward a cliff. For many of us, it's away from one. Only time will tell whether one path is much better or worse than the other.

But the speculation about fundamental "societal breakdowns" is pretty loony, especially considering that the ship hasn't left the dock yet.

The sky is not falling.
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
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Re: US Approaching Point of No Return?

PostBy: Dann757 On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:51 pm

Stockingfull,
Thanks for the positive post, we need to have more like that.
Dann757