Oil Burner not firing...

Re: Oil Burner not firing...

PostBy: stoker-man On: Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:18 pm

I can't imagine an expansion tank releasing steam unless it's filled with hot water and the bladder is broken on an Extrol type tank.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove


Re: Oil Burner not firing...

PostBy: billlindley On: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:38 pm

Ok, we finally got to the bottom of this mess. Turns out the check valve went bad and the circulator couldn't push the water thru. We took the check valve off and thru a pass thru piece fo copper on. THe water circulates but now the pump is making a sound that doesn't seem right. It sounds like it lagging or working to hard. If a check valve required in a hydronic heating system after the circulator? Would the water actaully work against the circulator without a check valve in place?
billlindley
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading
Stove/Furnace Model: Lehigh RS-96

Re: Oil Burner not firing...

PostBy: whistlenut On: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:17 pm

It would be letting the water circulate freely and since warm rises, it would act as a gravity system. You will need to replace the check valve, and thanks for letting us know "the rest of the story". It was frustrating not being able to see or hear the problem. One thought; now that the circulator sounds like it's on the way out. IF you are pumping from the feed side of the boiler, you could replace the circ with a Taco 007 IFC, (Internal Flow Check)or a Taco 00R 3 speed IFC and have the flow check already installed in the pump. Good time to upgrade your system if you have to replace parts anyway. An 1 1/4" check is about 45.00 and a new 00R IFC is 85 ish. A 00R IFC is available as a 3 speed to compete with Grundfos 3 speeds, and usually costs the same as a 00R IFC single speed. I have installed over 60 007 IFC and 00R 3 speeds this winter. Guess what I keep on hand now"! Yes, you can remove the IFC valve if you want to in 15 seconds. Keep us informed. Be safe, stay warm
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ & V-Wert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks,Itasca 415,Jensen, NYer 130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska, EFM, Keystoker, Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska, Keystoker-2,Leisure Line
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska, Gibraltar, Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Ford, Jensen, NYer, Van Wert,
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwoods
Coal Size/Type: Barley, Buck, Rice ,Nut, Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Oil Burner not firing...

PostBy: stoker-man On: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:49 pm

If you have zone valves, you don't need the check valve. I couldn't find in your posts if you have zone valves.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: Oil Burner not firing...

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:11 pm

A check valve? You mean a Flo-Chek like this?
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If you bypass that & don't have zone valves, hot water will circulate unchecked with no calls for heat, but shouldn't restrict the flow..........unless the pipe you jammed in there is real small.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - (custom built by Jim Dorsey, Taunton MA - RIP 4/18/13)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (SOLD!)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Oil Burner not firing...

PostBy: billlindley On: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:40 am

The pass thru we replaced it with was the same diameter as the rest of the system (3/4). The circulator we have now is a Taco 007 5F which I don't believe has a internal check valve so I will see if the the local plumbing supply has one in stock. I am going away for 10 days on Wednesday so I just need to get somehting in place that will keep the house warm until my return. The Local Lowes has the Taco the system originally used and what I replaced so if I need to I will just install a new check valve and circulator. The heat woke me up this morning when it kicked on due to the sound of the rushing water. It seems to stop once the temps in the boiler rise I figure the water expands enough to reduce this.

Stoker Man:

There are no zone valves.

Smitty:

The check valve we had looks like this
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Thanks again for all the help. It has been a long process.
billlindley
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading
Stove/Furnace Model: Lehigh RS-96

Re: Oil Burner not firing...

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:09 pm

SMITTY wrote:A check valve? You mean a Flo-Chek like this?
flo_chek.jpg


If you bypass that & don't have zone valves, hot water will circulate unchecked with no calls for heat, but shouldn't restrict the flow..........unless the pipe you jammed in there is real small.


Those valves should have a drip leg (a 3-4" nipple with a pipe cap) on the bottom port to allow sediment to settle out of the valve, otherwise they tend to bind up from it.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Oil Burner not firing...

PostBy: billlindley On: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:38 pm

Perhaps that the reason it got stuck and restricted flow. I will look into the one you suggested. Hopefully it will be the same length so it won't be a pain to install.
billlindley
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading
Stove/Furnace Model: Lehigh RS-96


Re: Oil Burner not firing...

PostBy: stoker-man On: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:29 pm

The Taco 007 has NO check valve
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: Oil Burner not firing...

PostBy: SMITTY On: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:16 pm

??? That valve in the picture is for cold well water -- it keeps the water from being forced out of the pressure tank & back down into the well. I'm trying to figure out what that was doing on your boiler! :shock:

If you can hear water flow in the pipes when the circulator kicks on, that means there is air trapped in them that needs to be flushed out.
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Here is the valve in your pic on my well pressure tank that I just installed in November. This is where it's supposed to go.
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SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - (custom built by Jim Dorsey, Taunton MA - RIP 4/18/13)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (SOLD!)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Oil Burner not firing...

PostBy: billlindley On: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:37 am

[quote="SMITTY"]??? That valve in the picture is for cold well water -- it keeps the water from being forced out of the pressure tank & back down into the well. I'm trying to figure out what that was doing on your boiler! :shock:

If you can hear water flow in the pipes when the circulator kicks on, that means there is air trapped in them that needs to be flushed out.[quote]

I have been told that the person who originally installed this unit in the home is not out of business. Perhaps that's why it was on there, he may not know what he was doing. I guess that fits since I am not a master plumber myself. :lol:
billlindley
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading
Stove/Furnace Model: Lehigh RS-96

Re: Oil Burner not firing...

PostBy: SMITTY On: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:05 pm

I don't think that valve will harm anything, but I'm pretty sure the hot water harmed the valve.... :lol:

I'm thinking if you bleed the air out of the system, everything will be fine, from what you described.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - (custom built by Jim Dorsey, Taunton MA - RIP 4/18/13)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (SOLD!)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Oil Burner not firing...

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:07 am

The sound of rushing water most probably,is either from not enough pressure in the boiler or air in the line.

Richard
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
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