New Vogelsang Pot Bellied Stove

New Vogelsang Pot Bellied Stove

PostBy: Buffalo12980 On: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:13 pm

Three yrs ago I bought a vogelsang pot bellied stove from Northern Tool for about $310. Since my purchase and subsequent installation, starting the stove and keeping it running has been a challenge. The first year I couldn't even get a fire going - after much experimentation and looking for helps I was able to get it "cooking!" My next mistake was moving around the burning coal as it was burning. Bad idea - once the coal established itself as a burning medium - you're not to touch it - it does and will go out!
Then the second year - I think I figured it out. -- I was able to start a coal fire and kept it burning for a full five days. I fashioned a couple of pokers out of 3/8" steel rod and am able to poke around from underneath between the grate openings, to create draft spaces to allow new air to burn the coal.
Before I did any poking, I laid a new layer of coal on the already burning coal bed and once this got started, used a heavy steel billet to tamp down the fire.
The I went underneath and poked and scraped a bit. Some ash came out but when small glowing embers started to come out I stopped. I use a combination of ashpan damper and fill door damper to regulate the fire - also the flap damper I got on the stovepipe I use wide open to start the fire and throttle it to almost closed once the fire is burning constantly. I recently tried something else. I run the stove with nut sized coal. Once I got a good fire going - I introduced coal about the size of grapefruits on top of the burning bed. Once this started I noticed I didn't have to maintain the fire so often as I did with nut coal. The larger masses, once started stayed burning longer than the nut.
Buffalo12980
 

PostBy: Buffalo12980 On: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:10 am

I just had a brain fart - could I make a hopper for this kind of stove using a piece of 8 inch well casing? I'd suspend it over the coal bed using steel clips where the bolts are in the upper part of the stove. When you lift the cap it would expose the hopper top. the lower section of the pot bellied stove is about 14 inches high, then it tapers towards the top another 14 inches like an hourglass, then opens back up to a flat affair with the lift lid in the center. The smoke shelf is near the back top and takes an oval piece of stovepipe. Would the hopper generate objectionable gases every time I open it to fill it with coal?
Buffalo12980
 

can you post

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:57 am

Can you post a photo showing the ash drawer and the loading door of your stove?? This would help us help you a great deal.

It sounds like you had problems with keeping air passageways open to feed oxygen to the fire. It also sounds like you have figured out your stove's personality and characteristics.

I can't visualize where you want to install the hopper, and I'm not sure how you plan on getting the coal from the hopper to the firebox itself.

Personally, I wouldn't try modifiing the stove too much, if you get a run-away fire you could do a great deal of damage or even burn down your buildings. And don't forget the possibility of personal or family injuries or death. I've had a runaway fire in a stove in the house before, and it is something you don't want to experience, had I not been home the house would have burnt down.

The hopper-feed stoves that I have looked at have a specific shape to the hopper, and a designed-for-the-hopper grate at the bottom of the hopper. The fresh coal feeds onto the grate as the burnt-up coal turns to ash and falls either off the grate or through the grate. I can't imagine being able to create this type of hopper to fit into your stove.

I would stay with what you have, [it is working], or upgrade to a different stove if you want a stoker or hopper fed stove. Better safe than sorry.

BTW, I have designed and built a couple of stoves over the years, but they all were for use in big drafty shops or in outbuildings. I wouldn't feel very safe about modifying your stove and using it in the house.

Hope this helps. Greg
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

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To Greg - Pot Bellied Stove

PostBy: Buffalo12980 On: Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:19 am

I'm always trying to improve on a product. As you say hoppers are designed into a product. I suppose I can just hand fill this thing all the time. But I was just trying to improve on it. I have enclosed a digital photo of the stove. Real simple, bottom is a damper and ash tray, door has a damper on it and stovepipe has a 6 inch damper on it [manually operated] I have the stove operating right now - outside temperature is 36. coal is in the firebox to a depth of about 10 inches, bottom third of the stove is glowing red - it never gets orange hot - stack temp at the elbow is about 350 with a magnetic gauge.
Buffalo12980
 

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:43 am

Hello Buffalo, I understand, I'm always looking for a 'better way' to do things too.

I'm pretty sure you will have to hand feed this type of stove. You could create a hopper, like a big funnel that hangs on the side of the stove with a hand-controlled door to dump added coal onto the fire without opening the door. This might be more convienent than what you have to do now.

Are you using this stove in the house?? with the bottom of the stove glowing orange-red, you might consider adding a small fan to circulate air over the hot surfaces to pull away some of the heat. I'd also inspect the fire-pot often for heat-errosion from this hot of a fire. Most coal stoves have firebrick to protect the steel or iron from the direct heat of the fire, since the fire does errode away the steel and iron.

It is possible for a passageway to be created in the pile of coal where there is lots of oxygen in one area, and the heat will get too hot and soften the iron. This is after all how Farriers [sp?] the horse shoeing blacksmiths create heat to soften the horse shoes to shape them.

My latest boiler is fully firebrick lined to spread out the heat to the water jacket surrounding the fire box. I did this to prevent errosion of the SS water jacket as well as to prevent hot spots that would create localized boiling of the water.

Take care, Greg

BTW, I don't see a photo, ??
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Vogelzang Stove

PostBy: Buffalo12980 On: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:51 am

How do you regulate output temperature in a pot bellied stove? There's a movable door where the ashtray door is, there's a rotating thingie with holes in it in the fill door and I have a manual damper in the flue about two feet up the stack before it elbows off into the thimble.
I fired it up four times now and the temperature in its vicinity is over 94 degrees. Stack temperature reads about 150 when its fired up. I'd like the temperature to be about 86 which is comfortable but 94 - T shirt and skivvies!
Picture will follow when I get the batteries charged up for the digital.
Buffalo12980
 

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:31 am

I'd get a small fan and circulate the air around the stove, maybe in a doorway or hallway going from the stove's room?? Anything to get some hot air out and cool air in.

If this is a one room cabin or house, then keep the draft control on the loading door closed, and control the air getting below the fire using the draft control on the ash door. Turn it down as much as you can without having the fire go out.

If you have the air shut way down, you may have to open the damper in the stack to provide more draw from the chimney, and to keep the chimney warm, or it will stop drawing air and the fire will go out.

You might try making a metal screen or plate to put in front of the stove to shield you from most of the radiant heat coming from the hot firebox.

Hope this helps, Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Vogelzang

PostBy: Buffalo12980 On: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:21 am

Morning Greg.
Will try the fan thingie - enclosed is a picture
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Buffalo12980
 

Pot Belly Stove - confused

PostBy: Buffalo12980 On: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:49 am

For the past two days my pot belly stove has been fired up and was putting out heat. Yesterday afternoon I loaded up the stove with large coal (stove coal?) and left for a half day. When I came back, the fire was glowing but there wasn't any heat coming out of the stove. I was able to put my hand on the stack without burning it. What is going on with the stove? I put some firebrick along the bottom part of the stove - to keep the burning coal away from the cast iron and prolong the life of the stove. But it really bugged me - how can there be a coal fire and no heat?
Buffalo12980
 

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:09 pm

Check for enough air getting to the coal, [grate choked with ash?] and enough draft to pull the air past the coal and up the chimney. [no dampers closed or chimney restricted?]

Just one large lump won't heat very much, the coal chunks seem to feed off each other. The heat from one chunk heats the neighbor, which in turn returns heat. The result is a lot more btu's

I've noticed the same thing, a single large chunk isn't very impressive, but several together make some serious heat if the air is getting to them.


Greg
Last edited by LsFarm on Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:10 pm

The heat is going up the stack. Also, if I'm not mistaken, that stove requires a 36" clearance to all combustibles. Maybe I'm not seeing it right from the picture but it looks awfully close to the wall. Drywall and aluminum foil do nothing to mitigate the heat transfer. I've seen many fires and scorched framing from this type of installation. You should check the stove specs and install accordingly or you may have too much heat.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

PostBy: Buffalo12980 On: Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:53 pm

coalkirk wrote:The heat is going up the stack.

There's a manual damper in the stack and it was closed bout 7/8 of the way to contain heat in the firebox
Also, if I'm not mistaken, that stove requires a 36" clearance to all combustibles. Maybe I'm not seeing it right from the picture but it looks awfully close to the wall.

That purple wall is the chimney blocks - no combustables there
Drywall and aluminum foil do nothing to mitigate the heat transfer. I've seen many fires and scorched framing from this type of installation. You should check the stove specs and install accordingly or you may have too much heat.

I can put my hand on the chimney when the fire's a blazing up above the thimble and feel warm, not hot! I have access to the chimney on the second floor and it's also warm, not hot.
Buffalo12980
 

PostBy: Buffalo12980 On: Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:58 pm

LsFarm wrote:Check for enough air getting to the coal, [grate choked with ash?


The slide grate has a bunch of holes in it - moving the grate in and out removes a lot of the finely powdered ash to the drawer beneath it.

and enough draft to pull the air past the coal and up the chimney. [no dampers closed or chimney restricted?


There is a manual damper in the pipe up about two feet above the stove. When I'm re-firing it, the dam[er is open. When I'm heating it's about 7/8 closed. allows the gases to pass, but noit much heat going up.

Just one large lump won't very much, the coal chunks seem to feed off each other. The heat from one chunk heats the neighbor, which in turn returns heat. The result is a lot more btu's


I've noticed the same thing, a single large chunk isn't very impressive, but several together make some serious heat if the air is getting to them.
Buffalo12980
 

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:47 pm

Buffalo, I edited your posts above because you had the quoting messed up. You need to wrap the quote 5tag around each quote. Like this except without the asterisks:

Code: Select all
[*quote]What the person said[*/quote]
Your response


Or for multiple reponses like I did abpove:

Code: Select all
[*quote]What the person said[*/quote]
Your response
[*quote]What the person said #2[*/quote]
Your response #2
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

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