Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

Re: Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

PostBy: BillMarti On: Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:11 pm

tvb

Your wrong again the peanut plant in question was running without the proper permits let alone inspections.

Bill S.
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Re: Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

PostBy: BobDavis On: Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:18 pm

Devil505 wrote:
BobDavis wrote:Not saying I'm against knowledge or research. I am saying that the federal goverment should not be the source of the funds.


Says who??


BobDavis wrote:If you are suggesting that war is a function of the federal goverment then I would agree. If you are suggesting that any other other function, other then those granted to the central goverment, should be done by the states or industry


So why do we have

CDC (center for diseace control)
OSHA (occupational Safety & Health) http://www.ask.com/bar?q=osha&page=1&qsrc=2106&zoom=OSHA+Regulations|History+of+OSHA|Facts+about+OSHA&ab=0&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.osha.gov%2F
NOAA - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.http://www.ask.com/bar?q=national+oceanic+atmospheric+administration&page=1&qsrc=2105&zoom=National+Oceanic+Atmospheric+Administration+NOAA|National+Ocean+Service|National+Oceanic+and+Atmospheric+Admin&ab=0&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.noaa.gov%2F

& DOZENS of other federal agencies where RESEARCH is a major component?

Your argument is ludicrous!



Lets not forget the Labor Dept, NASA, EPA, FBI, NSA, CIA, Homeland Security, etc. etc. etc
Is there no size of goverment that is too large?
Is there no intrusion of your privacy that is too much?
Is there no amount of tax money taken from your family that you will not hand over?

BD
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Re: Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:25 pm

KLook wrote:Hate to disagree with you Mike, but nature is reengineering itself every day. And there is always the possibility that it will be harmful to humans. The flu is the classic example amongst many others. But really, if we dont do it, the rest of the world is going to. Object on personal grounds but dont halt progress.

Kevin


Yes, exactly, nature is capable of reengineering itself without the intervention of man. The article states that genetically engineered corn showed up in traces in genetic studies of mexican corn in fields that hadn't been engineered. The trouble is that man doesn't know how to do it correctly.

You damn well better know what you are doing because if you don't you may end up with corn that cannot reproduce after one generation. Oops! Sorry, folks, we screwed ourselves out of corn!

All of you have made posts cautioning beginners in fire arms use and beginners in boiler system design but you want to say full steam ahead to pioneers in genetics, a highly complex field.

You boys aren't making any sense.

Kevin, I am merely cautioning all of us in our quest for the fountain of youth. The evidence suggests more control at this stage. I am not against controlled research. I am against introducing genetic lines before their vetted properly.
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Re: Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:48 pm

BobDavis wrote:Lets not forget the Labor Dept, NASA, EPA, FBI, NSA, CIA, Homeland Security, etc. etc. etc
Is there no size of goverment that is too large?


So we've gone from concern about Research to size of government?? When you have an idea about what bothers you about government Research, start another thread.
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Re: Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

PostBy: tvb On: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:12 pm

BillMarti wrote:tvb

Your wrong again the peanut plant in question was running without the proper permits let alone inspections.

Bill S.


Uh, excuse me, but did I say anything about permits? Noooooooooooooooo, I didn't.

But the fact remains that the PCA hired independent auditors to give them a purchased "seal of approval" which allowed them to forgo some government inspections. Further, the fact that the previous administration relaxed food inspections to allow private audits (and obviously permit checking if you are correct) just furthers my point that there are many instances where things should not be privatized. So, thanks for helping make that point even clearer.
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Re: Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:31 pm

Wait.... You mean "self-policing" doesn't work? :doh:
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Re: Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

PostBy: tvb On: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:58 pm

you may end up with corn that cannot reproduce after one generation.


Mike, are you familiar with a little company called Monsanto?

If not, the crux of their story is they make corn that cannot reproduce in order to maintain very strict patents on it. If it's allowed to reproduce, they would lose their patents and thus control of their product. The downside of this is it holds farmers hostage to buying Monsanto and Monsanto only. Monsanto has even gone so far as to sue organic farmers who have inadvertent cross contamination in their fields from a nearby farm using patented Monsanto products when they try to harvest their (now contaminated) organic seed for another planting.

The Monsanto story is yet another reason we want the government to fund the research vs private holdings doing it. Something that promises to be as beneficial as stem cell research shouldn't be able to be patented and privatized. If it is, only those with a gazillion dollars will be able to benefit.
tvb
 
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Re: Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

PostBy: tvb On: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:58 pm

av8r wrote:
kootch88 wrote:I have to tell you Jon, it has been very difficult for me to have reasonable discussions with folks who hold these eggs higfher and mightier than me. Hell the damned eggs don't pay taxes or create jobs, and I do both. I just want to walk again and be even more productive than I already am!! So yeah, I do have hope again. I would love to be able to limp around, forget about normal walking!!


There are some things that have more value than money.


How many blastocysts have you adopted today?
tvb
 
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Re: Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

PostBy: Yanche On: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:03 am

mikeandgerry wrote:Yes, exactly, nature is capable of reengineering itself without the intervention of man. The article states that genetically engineered corn showed up in traces in genetic studies of mexican corn in fields that hadn't been engineered. The trouble is that man doesn't know how to do it correctly.

You damn well better know what you are doing because if you don't you may end up with corn that cannot reproduce after one generation. Oops! Sorry, folks, we screwed ourselves out of corn!

Faulty argument, when re-engineering any seed crop you never, never do away with the initial seed material. In fact the Svalbard Global Seed Vault and other less grand efforts are specifically designed to prevent seed genebank failure.
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Re: Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

PostBy: BillMarti On: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:29 am

Tvb,

You give 1 example of greed but how about the FDA giving and knowing the drugs given to our children for so called learning disabilities will cause heart attacks,cigarettes are for known for causing cancer,alcohol which is abused more than not and these are government approved and you want us to trust them to have free reign on research they can't be trusted on known health issues that can be prevented. Tell me you think the government hasn't been fooling around with genetics for a long time. There already has been break throughs with adult stem cell research and that is being held up by who you guessed by the very people you defend.
Just a point of information we have a local chicken/turkey processing plant that has been shut down several times for salmonella which has a government inspector on site what happened there.


Bill S.
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Re: Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

PostBy: stockingfull On: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:37 am

Just because gov't may sometimes legislate poorly or agencies may regulate poorly doesn't necessarily mean that the solution is to throw the whole system away; if you really like our Constitution, your efforts should be directed at making the gov't function properly.

That's why we have elected representatives and courts. If you think a proposed reg doesn't make sense, whether economically or otherwise, communicate with the agency and with your elected reps, so they can investigate and go to bat for you.

If they legislate or regulate unfairly or unconstitutionally, get together with your fellow citizens who are also unfairly burdened and fight the gov't action in court.

Whatever you do, don't just whine about it here.
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Re: Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

PostBy: BillMarti On: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:57 am

Stokingfull,

Thats exactly what this discussion is all about or did you miss that. They're passing this legislation without the WE THE PEOPLES input. As California is doing right now the majority voted and the government won't step out. If stem cell research is put to a vote lets see what happens the problem is solved. This is still a republic not a democracy it's by the people not by the government. This is not for a person to decide (BO) but for the people to decide. Look whats written on federal printed money thats where our freedom originates from "IN GOD WE TRUST" not in mans opinion.

Bill S.
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Re: Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:56 pm

I`ll take your word for the on site gov. inspector but I have never heard of any plant having an on site inspector. At best their ranks have been cut back so far they barely get to inspect once a year, that is possibly unless of a reputation of unsanitary conditions or insider whistle-blowing. Just too little inspectors & too many places & then once you subtract the ones that have relative ability I really can`t believe there is a plant that has an on site inspector. Company paid inspectors (quality control) I can believe. But then they would only be as good as they are permitted to be.
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Re: Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

PostBy: stockingfull On: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:34 pm

BillMarti wrote:Stokingfull,

Thats exactly what this discussion is all about or did you miss that. They're passing this legislation without the WE THE PEOPLES input. As California is doing right now the majority voted and the government won't step out. If stem cell research is put to a vote lets see what happens the problem is solved. This is still a republic not a democracy it's by the people not by the government. This is not for a person to decide (BO) but for the people to decide. Look whats written on federal printed money thats where our freedom originates from "IN GOD WE TRUST" not in mans opinion.

Bill S.

Hey, Bill, don't you remember? We all voted -- or at least had the opportunity to vote -- last November. Nothing Obama's doing is different from what he said he'd do.

Contrary to your apparent assumption, we don't get to vote on every step the gov't takes.

And, even if we did, I don't happen to agree that it wouldn't pass. As I see it, when it's supported by the likes of Orrin Hatch, Arlen Spector and Nancy Reagan, it'd pass by an overwhelming margin.
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Re: Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Finally!

PostBy: BobDavis On: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:10 pm

Devil505 wrote:
BobDavis wrote:Lets not forget the Labor Dept, NASA, EPA, FBI, NSA, CIA, Homeland Security, etc. etc. etc
Is there no size of goverment that is too large?


So we've gone from concern about Research to size of government?? When you have an idea about what bothers you about government Research, start another thread.



Well let's see; How about taking billions of dollars out of our pockets for carbon credits because of politically correct, or should I say incorrect, global warming research that cannot reliably show cause and effect. How about spending a billions for Mars research - yep that one is going to save energy at home. It is out of control and in your heart you must know it. We cannot afford to keep wasting our resources (money) on such foolishness.
So is size of government the issue? Anybody got extra couple of trillion so Uncle Sam can start paying back the bailout? Do you know how much a TRILLION dollars is? Disgusting!! So why don't I think government should be deciding which research should get dollars and which should not. Give me a break!!

BD
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