Obama's 1st Major Mistake

Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: OldAA130 On: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:18 pm

Dan757 and KLook,

you's guys need to calm yourselves a little. Don't try to balance out the extreme views of Devil by going to the opposite extreme.

America IS strong. America also needs to be kind. I'm not talking about kindness to our enemies and those in GITMO. It needs to be kindness to the weak in the world.

A friend of mine was killed in Iraq. His name is Sfc Mike Tully... look it up. Read some of the articles about Mike. Read the ones coming from his family. He believed in the mission in Iraq. The mission was to unseat a tirant. Done. This tirant was a threat to our safety. Devil will dispute this I'm sure... that's his and every other brainwashed liberal's M.O. Any honest person can look at recent recorded history and see why we should be there.

The other mission was to protect the weak kids on a playground full of bullies. Not done, but much better then it was. I've talked to other soldiers who express how satisfying it is to see the Iraqi people... the REAL Iraqi people (not the ones paraded on CNN)... react with deep sincere gratitude towards the U.S.

Obama is simply a liberal cliche. Almost like a teanager with a self esteem problem who will sell her very soul just so the mean kids will like her. But we know that's not going to happen.

It's simple to understand but the first thing you need to posess to gain this understanding is simple honesty. Something that Jacob didn't have in Genesis.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: KLook On: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:42 am

Kind of mystified about that last one AA. I have not gone anwhere. I have been calm through this whole debate. No name calling or such on my part. I don't see the world through the rose color of religion. I am in between the liberal nut jobs and the conservative nut jobs. i have friends that are both. Of course everbody wants to think they are in the "center" and are the voice of reason. I did not go anywhere to combat Devil, I stated my opinion. And yes I think he likes to antagonize. Sorry if you think my comments went to far out there. I have tried to restrict them and be concise but that is difficult.

Kevin
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:59 am

The topic of this thread is whether or not closing Gitmo is a mistake. Some of you guys are of the belief that my stance on the Iraq war is somehow "Extreme" but let me remind you that YOU are the ones out of step with the majority of us American voters, not me. As far as Gitmo is concerned, even former President Bush agreed it had become a bad symbol to America, & even he wanted to close it.

OldAA130 wrote:Don't try to balance out the extreme views of Devil by going to the opposite extreme.


Look at the election results & tell me how my views are extreme & yours are not.


KLook wrote:I did not go anywhere to combat Devil, I stated my opinion. And yes I think he likes to antagonize. Sorry if you think my comments went to far out there.


I have started a thread in the Flame Central forum for anyone who wants to speak frankly about my "Extreme" views.<removed link to FSC>(not a stupid food fight, just a frank discussion)
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: OldAA130 On: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:03 am

KLook wrote:Kind of mystified about that last one AA. Kevin


One of the problems with this type of communication... reading from a computer screen what someone else typed without the benefit of their expression or sound of their voice leads many to misinterperet what the message is.

I read your comment about breaking the unions right after the comments of Dann757 and it all kinda rolled together. Sorry.

I see a different view of some of these issues. Like your comment about tort reform... if lawyers had no greedy clients (those who want something for nothing) then this problem would not exist. If you bust all the unions then skilled labor would be a thing of the past.

This is off topic but I think an important point. Maybe we could start a new thread discussing unions. I am not a union member. Was once for about a year but I couldn't stand it and quit. But I now hire union labor as a member of management and would not have it any other way. The times I chose to go cheeper and hire non-union I had to follow-up with more skilled union labor to do the job a second time. Unions are not the answer to everything. But craft unions have a process in place to ensure that the labor is skilled.

In another thread there was a discussion about where the bailout funds should go and that they should not go to "white guys". I shutter at the thought of non-skilled labor building America's infrasturcture. has nothing to do with color, gender or anything else. It's skill I'm talking about.

And Devil, I'm not up for removing civility from this debate. Thanks for the invite though.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:28 am

OldAA130 wrote:And Devil, I'm not up for removing civility from this debate. Thanks for the invite though.


I'm not talking about removing civility from any discussion, no matter where it is. This topic is limited to Gitmo & too confining, (I believe) to allow a broader discussion. Anyone who knows me knows that I always try to remain as civil as the person I am discussing a topic with & am not an 8th grade bully looking for an after school fight.
A far as believing that we need to close Gitmo for the sake of regaining our moral standing in the world & our own self-respect, do you seriously believe that my view is "Extreme?" (that question is open to anyone)
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: OldAA130 On: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:32 am

I don't believe that the view is extreme. But I also don't believe that we would do that due to our standing in the world.

I do believe that if I were able to look at America through your prism that it would be unrecognizable to me. It's one of the beauties of this country. Your view can be radically different from my view and together we can co-exist and succeed. Unfortunately, many really don't like it this way and they believe that if you don't come to their side of thinking that you are evil and need to be destroyed.. both figuratively and literally.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:39 am

Devil505 wrote:The topic of this thread is whether or not closing Gitmo is a mistake. Some of you guys are of the belief that my stance on the Iraq war is somehow "Extreme" but let me remind you that YOU are the ones out of step with the majority of us American voters, not me. As far as Gitmo is concerned, even former President Bush agreed it had become a bad symbol to America, & even he wanted to close it.

OldAA130 wrote:Don't try to balance out the extreme views of Devil by going to the opposite extreme.


Look at the election results & tell me how my views are extreme & yours are not.


KLook wrote:I did not go anywhere to combat Devil, I stated my opinion. And yes I think he likes to antagonize. Sorry if you think my comments went to far out there.


I have started a thread in the Flame Central forum for anyone who wants to speak frankly about my "Extreme" views. <removed link to FSC>(not a stupid food fight, just a frank discussion)



Guess one needs to be authorized to even read the flame central thread. I wonder why that is? :|
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:45 am

OldAA130 wrote:I do believe that if I were able to look at America through your prism that it would be unrecognizable to me. It's one of the beauties of this country. Your view can be radically different from my view and together we can co-exist and succeed. Unfortunately, many really don't like it this way and they believe that if you don't come to their side of thinking that you are evil and need to be destroyed.. both figuratively and literally.


I totally agree with you there. I've said many times before that we are not enemies here. We are all Americans trying to do what's best for our country & the implication that someone who doesn't share YOUR (generic) view is somehow unpatriotic, extreme, a nut....you name the insult......does not ad to the discussion or the fixing of the problem, but detracts from it.
My view is that the treatment of detainees at Gitmo, with no end to their incarceration in sight & no recourse to any court to prove their innocense, as well as their treatment there (at least perceived) has badly hurt our moral standing in the world & that our moral standing is exactly what separates us from many of the most inhumane & lawless nations on this planet, so it is important.
For those reasons, we need to close Gitmo asap, & the one year time-frame that President Obama has announced is both reasonable & already good for our image.
Last edited by Devil505 on Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: KLook On: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:53 am

I refer you back to my thoughts about world opinion of us.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:56 am

Poconoeagle wrote:Guess one needs to be authorized to even read the flame central thread. I wonder why that is? :|


Here is the disclaimer for Flame Suit Central:

"This is an unmoderated forum, the only forum rules that apply here are those that pertain to copyrights and full nudity. the contents of this forum can be highly offensive, if you do not have thick skin be advised this is not the forum for you.

Note: attacks on members not participating in this forum will not be tolerated.
This is a freely open group, all new members are welcome."




To join it you have to agree that the above rules are ok

If so: Goto

User Control Panel
Select the Usergroups tab
Then select Flame Suit Central


I like it because you can wander off topic, are free to say what you want & post what you want ...with few limits!

(not because it's a place for juvenile attacks & food fights......I'm 62 years old (although some would say I'm 62 going on 9 :lol: ....& I have yet to see a single juvenile food fight there, nor would I participate in one...Frank...even Blunt...fine, but not juvenile) ;)
Last edited by Devil505 on Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:06 pm

Got it!
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:28 pm

Devil505 wrote:
OldAA130 wrote:I do believe that if I were able to look at America through your prism that it would be unrecognizable to me. It's one of the beauties of this country. Your view can be radically different from my view and together we can co-exist and succeed. Unfortunately, many really don't like it this way and they believe that if you don't come to their side of thinking that you are evil and need to be destroyed.. both figuratively and literally.


I totally agree with you there. I've said many times before that we are not enemies here. We are all Americans trying to do what's best for our country & the implication that someone who doesn't share YOUR (generic) view is somehow unpatriotic, extreme, a nut....you name the insult......does not ad to the discussion or the fixing of the problem, but detracts from it.
My view is that the treatment of detainees at Gitmo, with no end to their incarceration in sight & no recourse to any court to prove their innocense, as well as their treatment there (at least perceived) has badly hurt our moral standing in the world & that our moral standing is exactly what separates us from many of the most inhumane & lawless nations on this planet, so it is important.
For those reasons, we need to close Gitmo asap, & the one year time-frame that President Obama has announced is both reasonable & already good for our image.


We pretty much never agree Devil, but I'm with you on closing GitMo. For all your reasons and also the fact that there is always the possibility that any American could wind up there and be treated the same.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:49 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11 ... raig-step/

Greg Craig to step down. Obama didn' like his advice in managing the Gitmo "problem", et al.

White House Counsel Greg Craig is expected to announce as early as Friday that he plans to step down from his post following a rocky tenure, people familiar with the matter said.

Craig, the top lawyer at the White House and a close aide to President Barack Obama, has helped lead the administration's efforts on several national-security policies that initially enjoyed popular support but have since become liabilities for Obama.

These include the planned closure of the prison for terrorism suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and the release of Bush administration-era national-security documents.


Partisan politics and national security don't mix. I guess this administration needs a scapegoat.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:31 pm

All administrations need scapegoats. That's pretty much SOP.
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