Obama's 1st Major Mistake

Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: Millworker On: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:37 pm

lowfog01 wrote:Hello everyone,

Freddy, Millworker - I am wondering where it is that you get your news from.


Great point here. I too believe it is almost impossible to get balanced news from one source. So, I try to listen to both sides Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, Rove on the right and NPR, MSNBC, colbert/stewart on the left. I grit my teeth, listen to both sides, and try to form a balance opinion.



lowfog01 wrote: When he [Bush] was in office I knew that when my children went to sleep at night they had a better chance of waking up unharmed then they do now. Unfortunately, my 14 year old knows this, too. It's not rocket science. This belief is shattered now that Pres Obama has ordered the closing of Gitmo.


I am having difficulty understanding your logic. 775 detainees have been brought to Gitmo. 420 of them have been released UNDER THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, including Al-Shihri. Where is your outrage toward Bush for releasing more than half of the detainees? Obama has ordered the closing of the camps, not the release of the remaining 250 detainees. I don't believe the details on what the complete plan for these detainees is?

lowfog01 wrote: News sources other then the Mainstream Media report that anywhere between 18 and 60 of former residents of Gitmo have been recaptured on the battlefield, trying to kill Americans and innocent bystanders. Did you hear that on the news? The most famous former resident is now the head of Al-Qaida in Yemen.


yup, all released by the BUSH ADMINISTRATION. Not Obama. And is it 18 or 6o that have been recaptured? I would think it would be easy to quantify, not an estimation? Sounds to me like a lack of FACTS. When the Pentagon decides to release names, details, and evidence I will change my opinion and concede that more terrorists were released UNDER THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:51 pm

coalkirk wrote:This was an act of war.


War is a political act between established countries. Which country attacked us on 9-11? They are not a country, they are not even fighting a Jihad as they claim. They are psychopaths that have killed far more Muslims than the people they hate.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:59 pm

lowfog01 wrote:Hello everyone,

News sources other then the Mainstream Media report that anywhere between 18 and 60 of former residents of Gitmo have been recaptured on the battlefield, trying to kill Americans and innocent bystanders.


The question no one can answer is were these people radicals when they got there or are these people pissed off and radical because they were unjustly imprisoned, mistreated at the very least and tortured at the worst, by a foreign country for 4 years.

Many people got sent to gitmo because people cashed in on large cash bounties, not because the US caught them doing anything.

Let's take a hypotheitcal.

If the Canadians kidnapped me from my home, dragged me to a foreign country, held in me isolation, physically mistreated me, and tried to mentally break me. And then they let me go. Then I came home to find that my life had been destroyed, my wife and kids were gone, and I was a pariah, I would want revenge on Canada. I might well go blow up the canadian embassy. That would not be terrorism, that would be revenge.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:32 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
coalkirk wrote:This was an act of war.


War is a political act between established countries. Which country attacked us on 9-11? They are not a country, they are not even fighting a Jihad as they claim. They are psychopaths that have killed far more Muslims than the people they hate.


We finally agree! :lol:

To fight this limited group of "Psychopaths" with huge, traditional armed forces, (designed & trained to fight a land war against hordes of Soviet tanks in Europe) is a "Knee Jerk" reaction destined to failure from day one. We now have a CinC with depth & intelligence (personal intelligence) capable of understanding nuance & dealing with the problem maturely. He appears to have an open mind, will listen to ALL opinions & then make a measured , smart decision.
I say...give him a fair chance!
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: steveyrock On: Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:12 pm

The countries who harbor this limited group of "Psychopaths" need to police themselves if they want to stop the violence.

They must root out these groups of trouble makers themselves so they don't get punished along with the bad guys when we go after the perpetrators of a terrorist act. Innocent people need to help themselves or suffer the violence associated with retaliation.Bush proved this can work in Iraq now we need to focus on Iran who is behind and fund most of the terrorism.

The mass of the people in these countries want peace,so the liberals say and obama himself called Iran the biggest threat to the United States right now.
steveyrock
 

Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:52 pm

steveyrock wrote: now we need to focus on Iran who is behind and fund most of the terrorism.


Most of Al Quaeda's funds and personnel come from Saudi Arabia, not Iran.

How many Iranians were involved in 9/11? None.

How many Iraqis? None.

How many Saudis? Fifteen.

Who funds the madrasas in Pakistan? The Saudis.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: steveyrock On: Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:06 pm

From the council of foreign relations website. http://www.cfr.org/publication/9362#2

Does Iran sponsor terrorism?
In March 2006, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said, “Iran has been the country that has been in many ways a kind of central banker for terrorism in important regions like Lebanon through Hezbollah in the Middle East, in the Palestinian Territories, and we have deep concerns about what Iran is doing in the south of Iraq.” U.S. Director of National Intelligence Michael McConnell told CFR.org in June 2007 there is “overwhelming evidence” that Iran supports terrorists in Iraq and “compelling” evidence that it does the same in Afghanistan. For these reasons, news reports in August 2007 cited U.S. officials as saying that the United States would consider adding Iran’s Revolutionary Guard to the State Department’s list of foreign terrorist organizations. Iran has repeatedly denied involvement in helping attacks on U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.
steveyrock
 

Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:21 pm

steveyrock wrote:In March 2006, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said, “Iran has been the country that has been in many ways a kind of central banker for terrorism in important regions like Lebanon through Hezbollah in the Middle East, in the Palestinian Territories, and we have deep concerns about what Iran is doing in the south of Iraq.”


Pardon me....Is that the same Condoleezza Rice who was GW Bush's security adviser and architect of the Iraq invasion, before she was a useless Sec. of State?
.....Thought so! :no2: :fear: :gee: :bang: :box: :devil:
Last edited by Devil505 on Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:22 pm

I didn't say Iran wasn't a sponsor of terror. I said that AQ was funded by the Saudis.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: steveyrock On: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:13 pm

Devil
yes she is the same one and isn't wonderfull that she helped bring a country controlled by savages and murders toward democracy.

Erik
I am not selective by group with the defenition of a terrorist, any of them can give us a bad day.I will say that the Saudis and Iran both fund terrorism,it does not matter which faction gets the funds.
steveyrock
 

Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:45 pm

steveyrock wrote:
Erik
I am not selective by group with the defenition of a terrorist, any of them can give us a bad day.I will say that the Saudis and Iran both fund terrorism,it does not matter which faction gets the funds.


When the US funded the mujaheddin in Afghanistan were we supporting terrorists?
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: steveyrock On: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:57 pm

Hey Erik
totally different situation even though it may have been a mistake.The Soviet Union was in there.Differnet agenda.
steveyrock
 

Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:35 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:When the US funded the mujaheddin in Afghanistan were we supporting terrorists?


One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. There was a Jihad for muslim fighters from all over the middle east to free Afghanistan of the soviet invaders. Just like in Iraq with us. Watch what happens in Afghanistan over the next year or so.
Poppy production and the huge profits from it fund the Taliban. The Afghan government including police and military are so corrupted by the money that it flourishes. They don't have the will or the ability to destroy the poppies. It's a real dilema.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:05 pm

steveyrock wrote:Hey Erik
totally different situation even though it may have been a mistake.The Soviet Union was in there.Differnet agenda.


Bzzt. Thanks for playing. Please try again. I posted this in another thread but I'll say it again here.

The CIA was arming the mujahideen 6 months BEFORE the Soviets ever went into Afganistan.

According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979.
Quotation of Zbigniew Brzezinski




Zbigniew Brzezinski: "Regret what? That secret operation (the CIA backing of Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists) was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it?"

Zbigniew Brzezinski: "What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?" Quoting Zbigniew Brzezinski Jan, 1998*





http://www.geocities.com/RepresentativePress/binLadenphoto.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:15 pm

steveyrock wrote:Devil
yes she is the same one and isn't wonderfull that she helped bring a country controlled by savages and murders toward democracy.


In 1953 Mohammad Mossadegh was the DEMOCRATICALLY elected leader of Iran. (1952 TIME "Man of the Year" BTW). Problem was, he didn't really want to play ball with England and the USA. He threw the Anglo-Iranian Oil company out of the country and nationalized the oil industry there. The CIA bought and paid for a military coup and installed the Shah.

Mohammad Reza Shah was a brutal dictator. Kind of like Saddam. Except he let the US and Britain do what they wanted. Eventually, the people got fed up, and in 1979, overthrew him. We all know what happened after that.

The moral of the story is, the USA doesn't have any business dictating who controls what country. And when we try, it more often than not, bites us in the *ss.
jpete
 
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