Obama's 1st Major Mistake

Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:47 pm

Due to pressure from the left, many Gitmo detainees have been released by the Bush administration and many have found their way back to the battlefield.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090123/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/guantanamo_al_qaida
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Obviously, we are in a war with al-qaeda and it is unconventional by historic standards. The actions of GWB were prudent and necessary for the safety of US citizens. Gitmo continues to serve a purpose; it is a prisoner-of -war camp. We are still at war with al-qaeda, the prisoners should remain there indefinitely until the enemy surrenders.

Further, Obama will no longer let the CIA or military aggressively interrogate enemy combatants. When pressed by Major Garrett of FoxNews, Obama's press secretary could not respond to the question: What if mass American lives are in immediate danger and we have Osama bin Laden in custody, what will we do then?

Obama's actions are shameful. It is an embarrassment that his very first actions gave more consideration to enemy combatants intent on killing Americans than Americans themselves. Who's side is this fool on?
mikeandgerry
 
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:03 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:Obama's actions are shameful. It is an embarrassment that his very first actions gave more consideration to enemy combatants intent on killing Americans than Americans themselves. Who's side is this fool on?


It is window dressing for our friends and allies, it should buy him some support abroad. Wait to see what he actually does with them. If they come to the states and have civil trials, you are right, he is an idiot.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: UpStateMike On: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:09 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
mikeandgerry wrote:Obama's actions are shameful. It is an embarrassment that his very first actions gave more consideration to enemy combatants intent on killing Americans than Americans themselves. Who's side is this fool on?


It is window dressing for our friends and allies, it should buy him some support abroad. Wait to see what he actually does with them. If they come to the states and have civil trials, you are right, he is an idiot.


Agreed. And hiring Hillary for his cabinet was his first mistake. She should be skull-drug through the streets of every NY town she ever visited during her brief stepping stone Senator stint.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: Freddy On: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:15 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Gitmo is not a prisoner of war prison. It is a no mans land, outside the laws of any prison. It wasn't right to have it, wasn't right to hold the prisoners as they did. It needs to close...should never have been used as it was. If Bush wasn't such a buttwad, it could have been a prison, and could still be used, but Bush pushed the limits of humanity and we have no choice but to move the prisoners to someplace else. They can not just start treating it as a legal prison. When you take a prisoner you are required to treat them as such. We could have killed them on the battle field, but chose not to. Now that they are in custody, even though scum of the Earth, they deserve to be treated as humans, not some animal as Bush has done. Obama did exactly the right thing. We now have one year to find a way to house them properly. The USA is better than that, but Bush brought us down to the level of scum third world countries. Just because they treat prisoners like we have in Gitmo does not mean we should. We are better than that. Let's get back to being able to hold our head high and be proud to be Americans.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: ken On: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:38 pm

wow Freddy very well said. Nice post. :D Butthead thought he was above the law.
ken
 
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:45 pm

Freddy wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but Gitmo is not a prisoner of war prison. It is a no mans land, outside the laws of any prison. It wasn't right to have it, wasn't right to hold the prisoners as they did. It needs to close...should never have been used as it was. If Bush wasn't such a buttwad, it could have been a prison, and could still be used, but Bush pushed the limits of humanity and we have no choice but to move the prisoners to someplace else. They can not just start treating it as a legal prison. When you take a prisoner you are required to treat them as such. We could have killed them on the battle field, but chose not to. Now that they are in custody, even though scum of the Earth, they deserve to be treated as humans, not some animal as Bush has done. Obama did exactly the right thing. We now have one year to find a way to house them properly. The USA is better than that, but Bush brought us down to the level of scum third world countries. Just because they treat prisoners like we have in Gitmo does not mean we should. We are better than that. Let's get back to being able to hold our head high and be proud to be Americans.


Bush pushed the limits of humanity?

Did you not see the buildings fall in NYC? Did you not see the heads cut off in the ME? Did you not see the murals on the walls of Islamic homes commemorating 9-11? Did you not see the dancing in muslim streets after 9-11? Have you not hear the words of Osama bin Laden?

These combatants were not poorly treated. They were treated like prisoners in a camp for prisoners. They were not killed on the battlefield because this nation doesn't push the limits of humanity. US soldiers died because of the cautious rules of engagement. Soldiers who crossed the boundaries were incarcerated.

The left and the press have overblown this "torture" story in it's hatred of the right just as they have underreported the lack of ability of our new president to lead because of their blind political devotion. The US cut off no heads, pulled off no fingers, beat no brains, denied no accomodation of religion or diet. We need information to bring justice for the actions of the enemy. Without the pressure of time we won't get it. The release of these prisoners will either cause them their own death abroad in the hands of ruthless enemies or, cause the deaths of Americans and allies through their repatriation in al-qaeda. Why does this simple point escape so many?
mikeandgerry
 
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: plantman On: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:47 pm

Anytime that I seen video footage of the "place" looked pretty good. Far cry from the "concentration camps" back in Hitlers time.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: plantman On: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:51 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:[
Bush pushed the limits of humanity?

Did you not see the buildings fall in NYC? Did you not see the heads cut off in the ME? Did you not see the murals on the walls of Islamic homes commemorating 9-11? Did you not see the dancing in muslim streets after 9-11? Have you not hear the words of Osama bin Laden?

These combatants were not poorly treated. They were treated like prisoners in a camp for prisoners. They were not killed on the battlefield because this nation doesn't push the limits of humanity. US soldiers died because of the cautious rules of engagement. Soldiers who crossed the boundaries were incarcerated.

The left and the press have overblown this "torture" story in it's hatred of the right just as they have underreported the lack of ability of our new president to lead because of their blind political devotion. The US cut off no heads, pulled off no fingers, beat no brains, denied no accomodation of religion or diet. We need information to bring justice for the actions of the enemy. Without the pressure of time we won't get it. The release of these prisoners will either cause them their own death abroad in the hands of ruthless enemies or, cause the deaths of Americans and allies through their repatriation in al-qaeda. Why does this simple point escape so many?


Very well spoken. The "left" will now be getting more of what they want.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:09 pm

This is what they will get. This guy was nice enough to get released and rehabilitated by the Saudis.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090123/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/guantanamo_al_qaida
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
coaledsweat
 
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: tsb On: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:45 pm

Let the sheriff in Arizona or New Mexico take the gitmo boys. He'll give
them pink underwear and let them sleep in tents. Just like home.
tsb
 
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:15 pm

If you put these pieces of offal into American prisons they will recruit from within those walls. It's akin to putting a virus on your computer and not expecting it to spread across the network.

These people will saw off your head with a dull knife if given the opportunity, ask the family of Daniel Pearl for some insight.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: Freddy On: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:02 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:Did you not see....


Yes, of course I saw all the awful, inhumane things and they sicken me. Anyone that smiled the day the towers fell deserves to rot in hell. BUT, I will not lower myself, nor do I appreciate the government lowering to the inhumane standards of al-qaeda. Without question prisoners were tortured. That is against all we believe in and against the rules of war. Just because the enemy doesn't play by the rules does not allow us to do the same. Mom would simply say "Two wrongs don't make a right".
Freddy
 
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: edd On: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:19 pm

FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT AGREE WITH OBAMA ,A FEW SIMPLE WORDS,REMOVE THE WHITE
FLAG OUT OF YOUR BUTTS AND WAKE UP TO THE REAL WORLD.WE ARE DEALING WITH PEOPLE THAT WANT TO DO EVERY AMERICAN HARM,INCLUDING CHILDEREN.
EDD
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: Millworker On: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:22 pm

Look, there's no doubt the detention camps at Guantanamo pose an impossible situation to solve with broad support. But the situation that has unfolded there has tarnished our reputation.The fact is some of the detainees are criminals, and others are not. Al-shihri clearly fits the former. I will wait to pass judgment on the 61 released detainees that have, according to the Pentagon, "returned to the fight," until the Pentagon decides to release any substantive details (names, where these criminals went, and what actions they have committed).

420 out of the 775 detainees have already been released, UNDER THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION. There is always going to be recidivism, but we can't hold people indefinitely without being tried for a crime. Just imagine being in prison for something you didn't do. That's a frightening thought to me.

I don't have a problem with Obama closing the camps. Deal with the remaining detainees in the most appropriate way, case by case. Repatriation to native country, transer to US prisons, trials etc. Then track these people. If there's even a hint of anti-American activity we find a way to put a bullet in their head.
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Re: Obama's 1st Major Mistake

PostBy: coalkirk On: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:48 pm

Water boarding, the torture technique in question, causes the subject to think he is going to drown. Certainly unpleasant but pretty low on the scale of what is traditionally considered torture. For someone like Kahleed shek Mohammed, mastermind of 9/11, it's fine by me. It was used very effectively in Viet Nam.
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