Castable Refractory Cement

Castable Refractory Cement

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:00 am

Looking for recommendations for a quality product.
Casting refractory bricks for coal stove use.
Some 45* angles some curves.
If you have worked with or have knowledge of cast-able refractory cement and can point me in the right direction I want your help!
The cement that was being used is no longer available and have had a few experiences with bad product trying to find the right manufacturer and product.
The refractory Russo used was very good, withstood the ravages of a coal fire well, if you know the manufacturer's name that would be great!
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Castable Refractory Cement

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:43 pm

I don't remember the name of the manufacturer, but it was purchased from a supply house that catered to pottery makers. It was used in the construction of kilns. You could look up pottery supplies in the phone book to see if there is anything local to you.

Richard
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Castable Refractory Cement

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:06 pm

There are plenty of commercial sources that you can google. If you are adventurous, try this.

http://www.visi.com/~darus/foundry2/refractory.html
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

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Re: Castable Refractory Cement

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:50 pm

Neat idea, the perlite and furnace cement. One thing I don't understand: they recommend adding water to the mix to make it easier to work with. But what happens to all that water as the cement sets? Or isn't this anything like the mortar mix used to build a chimney?

How strong would the resulting product be? Would a quarter-inch thick sheet be self-supporting, and take a bit of bashing around, if installed at a slant against the baffle plate on my stove?
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Castable Refractory Cement

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:44 pm

Refractory needs to be thick and cured, then fired for it to last any length of time. If you want something that thin you will need some specialty product I'm sure, but it looks like trouble.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Castable Refractory Cement

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:28 pm

coaledsweat wrote:If you want something that thin you will need some specialty product I'm sure, but it looks like trouble.


Thanks, coaledsweat. I often stuff my stove with coal, and some contacts the baffle plate or sits very close to it. I don't know if that will lead to premature burnout, so I was looking for a way to give it a little protection. Actually, since the coal burns less on the top compared to deep in the bed, the coal bed may settle before that area burns, and I may be concerned about nothing. All in all, I don't worry much about it. I figure the stove is there to give heat, so if the baffle burns out, I will think about it when that time comes.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Castable Refractory Cement

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:19 pm

Did some hunting and research.
For the castings we need a high density and abrasion resistant mix.
130-145 lb cu/ft
The normal stuff may work 'able cast 3000'
Found a specialty product for high/frequent temp swings $80 for 50lb
Has high fused silica content, glass.
http://www.ablerefractory.com/products%20castable.html

The materials for kilns are really not suitable for a coal firebox as a kiln has no abrasion just heat.
Cone 10 here we come!

Each cone is made to melt at a different temperature.
Cone 10 melts at 2350 degrees which is considered high fired stoneware.
At this high temperature, the clay becomes vitreous and is the strongest of the clay bodies.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Castable Refractory Cement

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:09 am

You do realize we are going to need pics and details of this one. :)
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Castable Refractory Cement

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:06 am

The kiln @ cone 10 or the heavy duty refractory?
My parents rented to a potter and he built pottery kilns in addition to doing his own firings.
Many a cone 10 party! Took the better part of a day, the flame and the glow were crazy at night.
The stoves are rebuilds of the Newcastle stove from Iron House in Hyannis.
They have started building them again new also.
Nice solid design round grate.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Castable Refractory Cement

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:38 am

http://www.fornobravo.com/

a favorite site of mine. free to join in the forum on building the Pompeii there is much info on refractory....

best comes from Lamoines France I think :roll:
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: Castable Refractory Cement

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:14 am

I went to the oven and train sites looking for refractory that will stand up to the abuse of a small coal stove.
Temp swings, coal tossed and humans poking the fire!
Ovens and pottery has no abrasive factors to consider.
Trains tend to be bigger so less wall whacking with the shovel or poker.
I figure down in Texas they make some heat in the refineries and heavy manufacturing.
So I am going with the industrial side to over design the refractory castings.
Able seems to have a good mix and can provide pallet quantities.
I am still looking for other vendors and manufacturers to try out their mixes.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Castable Refractory Cement

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:37 am

Found another source
http://www.hwr.com/
Has a sales office in West Haven CT
Will give them a shout in the morning.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Castable Refractory Cement

PostBy: UpStateMike On: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:34 pm

I like the idea of casting your own custom firebricks. My stove has rounded one and they are not cheap.

Ideally one could get an tougher industrial casting mix, create the bricks, allow them to air dry (aka greenware) and then ask a kindly local potter or school to fire them for you. If you want to really MacGuyver it, wait til Summer and you can make a kiln by digging a hole, burying the "pots" and then covering with a couple face cord of wood http://www.biocoal.org/10.html . Probably want to make some multiples if you go though that trouble, and make me a nice ashtry for cigars while your at it.
UpStateMike
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Elmira Oval (in house)
Stove/Furnace Model: Round Oak d-18 (workshop)

Re: Castable Refractory Cement

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:15 pm

Refractory castings do not need to be fired in a kiln.
Pour it, dry it then slowly heat it.
Treat refractory like green cast iron.
Making your own fire brick is a different story.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Castable Refractory Cement

PostBy: BIG BEAM On: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:30 pm

How about this.
http://www.rutland.com/productinfo.php?product_id=22
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

DON
BIG BEAM
 
Stove/Furnace Make: USS Hot blast
Stove/Furnace Model: 1557M

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