Automatic Ignition on Stokers

LsFarm wrote:Freddy is correct,, a propane torch is not hot enough,, even a acetylene/air torch is just barely hot enough.. An Oxy/Acetylene torch does a good job though !

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Greg L
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Actually I believe an air-propane flame is hot enough, far above the flash point of coal. The problem is it heats the top of the coal bed and doesn't get the bottom of the bed hot enough. Since the draft is upwards, the top quickly cools and the fire goes out. Oxy/Acetylene or even air/Acetylene does work (hot enough to heat the bottom of the bed) for me but a few lumps of charcoal seems far simpler.

An air-propane torch sure fires up my charcoal fast, not needing any fluids.

gerry

Lighting a stoker can be a pain in the ass, especially if you are inexperienced. I guess it would be good in the right situation but I would never feel the need for one. And as for me, I just feel it's one more thing that could go wrong. I'm a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. rule.

gerry_g wrote:

LsFarm wrote:Freddy is correct,, a propane torch is not hot enough,, even a acetylene/air torch is just barely hot enough.. An Oxy/Acetylene torch does a good job though !

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Greg L
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Actually I believe an air-propane flame is hot enough, far above the flash point of coal. The problem is it heats the top of the coal bed and doesn't get the bottom of the bed hot enough. Since the draft is upwards, the top quickly cools and the fire goes out. Oxy/Acetylene or even air/Acetylene does work (hot enough to heat the bottom of the bed) for me but a few lumps of charcoal seems far simpler.

An air-propane torch sure fires up my charcoal fast, not needing any fluids.

gerry

I light my stoker boiler with an oxygen-acetylene torch. I do it via the inspection port door. It's easily hot enough to get a few top coal burning. Then add some cutting oxygen. This forces the burning down to the bottom of the coal bed. Simple enough for a wife to do it. But, she wouldn't try it. Best I could get her to do was take a picture, in between yelling, "Your going to blow us both up". Picture is posted on this forum somewhere!

Like the group agrees an automatic igniter may be a nice thing to have but with coaltrol and lighting and setting on min 3 (my setup) I am actually putting out less energy than an electric fire. So mid Sept I intend to light and let the thermostat do its thing. No windowlator needed and most importantly no more one more damned thing to go wrong.

With all due respect I think many of you have missed the point.

Automatic ignition, if successful and made durable and user-friendly, would revolutionize the coal stoker industry.

Manufacturers like Leisure Line and Keystoker for example, would go from selling less than a thousand units a year, to selling several thousand units. The greatest competitor to the coal stoker in my opinion is the pellet stove with automatic ignition.

These new pellet stoves are desirable to a wider audience than a coal stoker. Besides auto ignition, they feature innovative styling, design and features, often winning HPBA Vesta awards. Several manufacturers offer pellet stoves that can modify their temperature via a text message from your cell phone. A company named Thelin seems to be the industry leader.

http://www.thelinco.com/

As I only have to light my EFM twice per year (fall and after shutting down for winter vacation), I don't see any value in having an ignitor.

However, should EFM do more testing and proving trials with pellets, they may need an ignitor for that.

As EFM is an underfed pot and can burn pellets or coal, I do think EFM is missing an opportunity appealing to the people who think they want to burn pellets. Once the homeowner has the unit installed, they likely will try coal due to it's much lower cost. Once they see how clean, easy and efficient coal is, they will never burn pellets. It is sometimes easier to sell someone what they think they want and then let them find out for themselves what they really want.

So with the exception of new units above, I would not pay any money for an ignitor retrofit kit should it ever be available.

It is very easy lighting the coal with charcoal. Striking that match and knowing you are setting in motion a flame that is going to last for months is really cool (or warm)!

I do agree with Earthwindandfire that coal stokers would appeal to a larger audience and compete better with pellet stokers having autoignitors available. It is just in my own home in my own case, I don't need one.

The anthricite coal industry (mines and appliance builders) should band together and support each other to develope systems with more market appeal. It is much safer than woodstoves and better than pellets. The gap between the public's perception of coal and the realities of a good coal system is huge.

Autoignitors, bulk bag feed systems, realistic oil field to burner versus coal mine to burner CO2 comparison information would all help sell the Northeast consumer on anthricite.

Just as automobiles have become MUCH more reliable, auto=igniters would preclude the user knowing much about the coal burning process. How many folks do you know that ever check the oil when refueling? or washer fluid? If you can't start a charcoal grill today, what do you think the odds are you will figure out coal ignition? I think it is a great idea, however after a few moons on this planet, I constantly refer to the KISS philosophy as most reliable and durable. My vote is "No'.

No matter how hard you try, you cannot engineer out 'The Stupid Factor'. If all you did was fill it and/or remove ashes, folks would just plain forget to do the ashes.....or clean the stacks.....or actually check any part of the unit. It is like having no CO alarm. Probably you would never have a problem, but there are no second chances with monoxides. I prefer safer than easier.

At the risk of sounding like a jerk...here is my opinion: It takes a certain type of person to run a solid fuel appliance. If you can't handle building the fire, you probably can't handle the rest either. There are exceptions, but for the most part that is what I have observed.

I gotta seriously agree with my friend WN on this one. God knows he's been around a long enough time to be right on the money. Scratch up another NO--you gotta love that KISS philosophy. Rob, please share one of those exceptions??

I have to position myself with the "no" votes also. With auto ignition also comes safety devices that would require lockout after so many failed attempts of lighting so fuel didn't build up to excessive amounts, etc. More cost, more complexity, more chance of failure than if none installed in the first place. Even a inplace manual ignitor seems excessive. I had a kerosene heater with an electric ignitor on it. The ignitor never worked well. A match was so much easier.

I agree that solid fuel appliances need to be tended to. Auto ignition is one more reason to ignor that appliance as face other problems.

If ease of lighting is what you want, go buy some of those burnable rodents. Personally, I'll stick to my cowboy charcoal.

Fred, I was just thinking that a coal fire can be tricky to start. There are plenty of handy, capable, folks that struggle starting a coal fire until they are properly instructed. Just because you don't currently know how to ignite anthracite doesn't mean you aren't smart enough to run a stove. If you still can't handle it after being shown, or think it us too much work...then go get a pellet stove or call the oil man.

With that said, I continue to be impressed with how easy it is to start the fire in my EFM. A handful of wood chips or charcoal is all it takes...5 minutes and it's burnin'.

Very well put my friend

EarthWindandFire wrote:With all due respect I think many of you have missed the point.

Automatic ignition, if successful and made durable and user-friendly, would revolutionize the coal stoker industry.

Manufacturers like Leisure Line and Keystoker for example, would go from selling less than a thousand units a year, to selling several thousand units. The greatest competitor to the coal stoker in my opinion is the pellet stove with automatic ignition.

These new pellet stoves are desirable to a wider audience than a coal stoker. Besides auto ignition, they feature innovative styling, design and features, often winning HPBA Vesta awards. Several manufacturers offer pellet stoves that can modify their temperature via a text message from your cell phone. A company named Thelin seems to be the industry leader.

http://www.thelinco.com/

Can't speak for L.L sales but I know for a fact Keystrokes already sell thousands of stoker stoves and boilers per year and have been since they opened their doors in 1946 and that is with out any Auto ignition However why not have it as a
option easier for most women & some men with it then with out it.

I seen it when they did the demo at L.L. retail store in drums in 08 when Jerry still owned the stove company the Guy's from coal trol know what there doing it is a good option it is a fairly simper design not rocket science

Yes, I picked up the key word for me---"fairly simpler"--sorry, I'm still a hands on kinda guy