Help! Keystoker 90 DV - Keeps going out at Idle

Help! Keystoker 90 DV - Keeps going out at Idle

PostBy: tullybrewing On: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:29 pm

I have just installed a Keystoker 90 DV that keeps going out at idle. From Keystoker, the timer came with 6 inserts in each 10-minute interval. I've tried adding an additional insert to each interval but haven't noticed any difference. Can anyone suggest an optimum amount of inserts to keep this thing going when the thermostat isn't calling for the stoker to operate constantly? I've checked my draft with a manometer and I'm dead on what Keystoker calls for. At a full burn, I have my feed adjustment turned out 8 counterclockwise and a perfect 2" of ash at the end of the grate. I know my feed is set properly at burn. I know the timer is cycling because you can see the little fan on the stoker module kick off and on as it advances past the inserts.
My stove is in the basement. I have an 8" output coming off the top running to 3 registers in the house pushed by a 500cfm fan. My programable thermostat is on the first story next to my propane furnace thermostat so that I can monitor both systems. I've got no problems with the Keystoker satisfying the thermostat demand. Any assistance would be appreciated!
tullybrewing
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Direct Vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: Help! Keystoker 90 DV - Keeps going out at Idle

PostBy: WNY On: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:41 pm

8 turns out is way too much, Turn in back in (Clockwise) all the way and maybe 2-3 turns out to start. It's not feeding enough to keep going. You should have about 1" (or less) of ash at full burn. Try that and let us know.

I have 5-6 pins every 10 minute and keeps a good flame on idle. each pin is about 15 Seconds of Stoke Time. That's about 1.5 Mins ON for every 10 Minutes OFF.

I also have a 90K DV and have not had any problems with it going out with these settings. I am going on 4 years with this stove. Only unless we get a power failure.

Maybe something is jammed in your stoker, not letting it push the correct amount of coal?

Has it been cleaned good for this this season? Under the burn grate, etc...Motors oiled good, etc...

Have you checked your draft with a draft gauge? and/or cleaned your DV motor/housing of fly ash?
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Help! Keystoker 90 DV - Keeps going out at Idle

PostBy: tullybrewing On: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:06 pm

Thanks - I will try this when I get home tonight. The stove is brand new and has only been running for 3-weeks. Draft is dead on and I made sure that I didn't have any fly ash build up. I'll monitor this for a day and post my reply. I'm trying to get the stove running properly before I start programming my thermostat so that I don't have to worry about the stove going out when the thermostat isn't calling for heat.
tullybrewing
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Direct Vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Help! Keystoker 90 DV - Keeps going out at Idle

PostBy: WNY On: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:19 pm

It should just sit and idle when no heat is being called for, mine can idle for days with no problem. But if you don't have enough feed, then it COULD go out, since you are pushing enough coal to keep going when on idle.

The stove shouldn't go out when calling for heat. The Thermostat just overrides the TIMER Box and continues to push the coal continuously until the thermostat is satisfied.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Help! Keystoker 90 DV - Keeps going out at Idle

PostBy: tullybrewing On: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:43 pm

Okay - I've determined why my stove keeps going out at idle, but have not yet been able to prove it was my feedrate (yet).
My timer is running backwards (30, 29, 28, 27, 26, etc.), so no matter how many clips I put into place, once the dial rotates into the switch, the switch prevents the dial from advancing any further (see picture illustrating direct of turn and stop point of switch against clip).

I plan to call Keystoker in the morning, but I can probably get my answer right here. Did the factory cross some wires when they wired this thing up which is causing the dial to run counterclockwise or is there only one way to wire these and I've got a defective timer? I would have thought that Keystoker performed a quality check on the unit after being wired to ensure that everything ran properly.

For now, I'll leave the T-stat up to keep this thing going because the timer obviously isn't going to do it's job at idle.
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Idle Timer on Keystoker 90DV
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tullybrewing
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Direct Vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: Help! Keystoker 90 DV - Keeps going out at Idle

PostBy: stovepipemike On: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:56 am

Presently there is the exact same problem as you are experiencing on anthracite discussions forum. Mr precision has his problem on a AA boiler. He may have concluded a bad timer motor. We are all anxious to get to the bottom of this nasty little twist. Keep us informed. Mike
stovepipemike
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KAA-2

Re: Help! Keystoker 90 DV - Keeps going out at Idle

PostBy: WNY On: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:22 am

Yes, someone else had the same problem with the intermatic timer.
Timer running backwards?

That would definately do it!!. Maybe the CLOCK wires are backwards, The cover/dial pivots forward, You should be able to check them, White to white, Black to Black and check the diagram for the wiring. Maybe switch the clock/timer wires and see what happens.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Help! Keystoker 90 DV - Keeps going out at Idle

PostBy: tullybrewing On: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:56 am

Hey Guys - just got off the phone Don at Keystone. He determined that the motor behind the dial in the timer is defective. They've had a couple of these and said that it's a lot easier to change just the motor behind the wheel rather than the entire timer. Don was very accommodating and called my dealer for me to explain the issue. He confirmed with my dealer, Dennis Coal & Stove, that they had a new motor on hand and then called me right back. My wife is on my way to pick the motor up so I can swap it out when I get home from work. I just have to take the bad motor back to the dealer so they can return it.
The timer wasn't wired incorrectly. The timers run on AC current, so no matter if you had the neutral and line wires crisscrossed, the motor is only going to spin in one direction.

Hope this helps anyone else that might be experiencing the same issue. :clap:

Reading through the feedback on Keystoker's performance, they really have taken a lot of heat on this forum for their backlog of orders. I just got my stove 2-weeks ago after waiting 18 weeks and 5 days from the time I ordered it in September 08. I can understand everyone's frustration in not knowing when they will be getting their orders, but I've got to give them credit for their timely response anytime I've called them directly to ask a question. Maybe they haven't done such a good job communicating their backlogs to the dealers or even posting it to their website - but they seem to be a pretty straightforward manufacturer. The rash of inbound orders has not impacted their workmanship - I went over every square inch of my stove and every weld is perfectly done. It's unfortunate that they didn't catch the defective timer on their quality audit on my stove, but I applaud Don for making sure that I was taken care of so I don't have any down time. He was prepared to ship me a new motor overnight, but went the extra mile to see what he could do to ensure I didn't have to wait to correct the issue.
tullybrewing
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Direct Vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: Help! Keystoker 90 DV - Keeps going out at Idle

PostBy: WNY On: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:01 pm

Great, glad you found out, I thought with AC it wouldn't matter, which way it hooks up, but sometimes worth a shot. :)
I know have electronic modules plugged into AC for lights, and some will not activate if the outlet is wired backwards (everything else works fine, but the Black/white are reversed).

Good luck, you should have it working in no time now!
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Help! Keystoker 90 DV - Keeps going out at Idle

PostBy: efo141 On: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:03 am

tullybrewing wrote:Hey Guys - just got off the phone Don at Keystone. He determined that the motor behind the dial in the timer is defective. They've had a couple of these and said that it's a lot easier to change just the motor behind the wheel rather than the entire timer. Don was very accommodating and called my dealer for me to explain the issue. He confirmed with my dealer, Dennis Coal & Stove, that they had a new motor on hand and then called me right back. My wife is on my way to pick the motor up so I can swap it out when I get home from work. I just have to take the bad motor back to the dealer so they can return it.
The timer wasn't wired incorrectly. The timers run on AC current, so no matter if you had the neutral and line wires crisscrossed, the motor is only going to spin in one direction.

Hope this helps anyone else that might be experiencing the same issue. :clap:

Reading through the feedback on Keystoker's performance, they really have taken a lot of heat on this forum for their backlog of orders. I just got my stove 2-weeks ago after waiting 18 weeks and 5 days from the time I ordered it in September 08. I can understand everyone's frustration in not knowing when they will be getting their orders, but I've got to give them credit for their timely response anytime I've called them directly to ask a question. Maybe they haven't done such a good job communicating their backlogs to the dealers or even posting it to their website - but they seem to be a pretty straightforward manufacturer. The rash of inbound orders has not impacted their workmanship - I went over every square inch of my stove and every weld is perfectly done. It's unfortunate that they didn't catch the defective timer on their quality audit on my stove, but I applaud Don for making sure that I was taken care of so I don't have any down time. He was prepared to ship me a new motor overnight, but went the extra mile to see what he could do to ensure I didn't have to wait to correct the issue.


Sounds like they did right by you. Looks like you ordered from one of Keystoker's long time favorite dealers. We have people here waiting over 8 months for there boilers. Keystoker has admitted to shipping not by order date but by favorite long time dealers first. I am glad you got yours faster than others, but it's still not right! If i would of known how Keystoker treats there small dealers i would of ordered directly from them back on June 18th. I do think this will bite them in the ass eventually.
efo141
 
Stove/Furnace Make: New Yorker/Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: WC90-----/Kaa-2

Re: Help! Keystoker 90 DV - Keeps going out at Idle

PostBy: tullybrewing On: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:07 pm

Just an update - I swapped out the timer motor last night and this has fixed my idle problem. The timer now spins clockwise and trips properly to ensure I'm cycling the stoker to keep me going at idle.

...now to fine tune my feedrate. I turned it all the way in and backed it off 3x counterclockwise turns. I let it burn all night and checked it this morning to find that there was absolutely NO ash bed and burning coal was falling off the grate into the ash pan. I've backed it off 2x additional counterclockwise turns and will check it tonight. I should have this thing dialed in soon. :up:
tullybrewing
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Direct Vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: Help! Keystoker 90 DV - Keeps going out at Idle

PostBy: WNY On: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:26 pm

Yes, that is a bit too much feed. I think I have mine around 3-4 turns roughly. But my thermostat gets satisfied pretty fast and I usually don't burn it at max that much. I usually have about 1/2-3/4" grate burning at a time with at least 1-2" of ash.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Visit Lehigh Anthracite