Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:02 pm

I would like your perspective on the drug problem in the US and what the outlook is. Is it a problem that will always be with us?

This is an earnest request.

I will stay out of any argument but I reserve the right to ask questions. :D
mikeandgerry
 
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Re: Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:29 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:I would like your perspective on the drug problem in the US and what the outlook is. Is it a problem that will always be with us?


I believe in the old maxim that says "You can't legislate morality."

Just as Prohibition failed, so will any attempt to curtail drug abuse in this country through law enforcement alone.

I feel the same thing applies to legislating against:

1.Alcohol abuse
2. Prostitution
3. Abusing "Twinkies" :lol: (overeating)
4. Being mean to eachother
5. Outlawing masturbation


As far as most of the above that are now illegal, I say legalize it & tax it.
Last edited by Devil505 on Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

PostBy: Paulie On: Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:57 pm

The drug problem is rooted in quality issues...... :lol: All kidding aside, if people are going to trash themselves, they
will regardless of how many you lock up. Education against use, legalize,control, and tax most drugs. People are going to
do what they want anyway. By legalizing gambling, we took the criminal element out of it....for the most part, gov gets it piece.. Booze legalized
after prohibition, took the criminal element out of it, gov got it piece . Drugs will be the same. Save on prisons, plus the
tax kicker, hard to loose.
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Re: Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:02 pm

Paulie wrote:All kidding aside, if people are going to trash themselves, they
will regardless of how many you lock up. Education against use, legalize,control, and tax most drugs. People are going to
do what they want anyway.


Agree with all your points! :up: (personally, I think it's just a matter of time b4 we realize this & stop trying to outlaw what, IMO are victimless crimes)

Edit: Let me expand on that a bit:

First, a disclaimer: I speak for no one but myself & my views do not represent DEA , U.S. Justice Dept or anyone other than me.

Now that' I've covered my butt (something us government goons are very good at ;) ) I'd make the point that, left to ourselves & with politics removed from the equation, federal agents generally try to do the right thing & prioritize their work pretty well.

Case In Point
Unless pushed into something by Washington for political purposes (generally), DEA Agents prefer not to do any case work on marijuana cases. We realized that very little harm is done by users of weed, & we'd rather spend our time on more dangerous drugs & drug pushers.
Example:-All DEA field offices regularly get telephone calls from irate citizens (usually women) who want to turn in the teen dealer on the street corner who they know is selling weed. When these calls come in, they are announced by the DEA receptionist/operator over the PA system as "Any Agent" calls, (i.e. "Any Agent...Line 2") meaning the call is general in nature. The new agents will try to beat the next guy in picking up these "Any Agent" calls in the hopes of developing some informants.......The bread & butter of police work. After listening politely to the woman & feigning interest, we would invariably thank the caller for the info, congratulate them for their civic watchfulness & then we would simply call the local PD & give them the info....Case closed! :lol: (I'm sure the locals did the same thing with our calls :lol: )

DEA Agents realize that the job we do is kinda like trying to empty the Atlantic Ocean with a teaspoon, so we prioritize the cases & go after the real bad guys who sell drugs but are typically also involved in worse crimes too...ie stolen guns, protection scams, terrorism, murder for hire, cop killing ....... you name it.


Every so often a case like this comes up http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... pot-raids/ & which is usually a response to a Washington bureaucrat's interest, but which most DEA Agents hate to do. This case was a hold-over from the Bush admin & I doubt would have gone forward if the new admin knew about it.
Last edited by Devil505 on Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:07 am

I have always been sympathetic to pot users. They tend to be mellow, if a bit paranoid, but I don't see the use of pot leading to major crime or harder drug use. I view it like I do alcohol. Harder drugs though, seem to present greater problems by destroying life and property. I have seen the damage they do to people close to me. It isn't pretty and it spills over to society in costly ways. I would like to think that society would continue make the moral judgement to try to save them from themselves as we do for the mentally ill and those who are suicidal.

Would the legalization of marijuana remove some of the allure of harder drugs for some users?

Since we have known for some two or three decades now that the war on drugs is impossible to win, why haven't legislators taken the same attitude you put forth, to legalize and tax it?
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Re: Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

PostBy: Freddy On: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:11 am

mikeandgerry wrote:Since we have known for some two or three decades now that the war on drugs is impossible to win, why haven't legislators taken the same attitude you put forth, to legalize and tax it?



Except that it's been more like 4 or 5 decades, that's about where I land on this issue Legalize marijuana, tax it, and for once tell people the truth about it. After 10 yrs or so then look back & see if it helped increase or decrease harder drug use.
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Re: Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:53 am

Freddy wrote:
mikeandgerry wrote:Since we have known for some two or three decades now that the war on drugs is impossible to win, why haven't legislators taken the same attitude you put forth, to legalize and tax it?



Except that it's been more like 4 or 5 decades, that's about where I land on this issue Legalize marijuana, tax it, and for once tell people the truth about it. After 10 yrs or so then look back & see if it helped increase or decrease harder drug use.


Most politicians don't have the guts to do it. Baltimores former mayor Kurt Scmoke proposed it and that was the end of his political career. There is such hypocracy in this country over this subject. Our current president and both former presidents before him all smoked marijuana. They didn't become insane, herion addicts or child molestors. (I'll give slick willy a pass on this one as all his molesting victims were of age as far as we know)

Marijuana is treated by law enforcement the same as herion or cocoaine. It's absurd. While it is probably true that 99% of herion addicts started with marijuana, it's also true that 99% of all those who smoked marijauna did not go on to become herion addicts. That's like saying that all herion addicts started with milk. True but no causal relationship. Obama is in favor of at least decriminalizing it. Hard to say if he'll have the guts to push the measure. The worst part about marijuana is the crime it creates to grow, possess or sell it. As Freddy said, legalize it, tax it and move on.

When I grew up in the 50's and 60's there were always lots of fights at and around the local teen center. Some of it was sort of loosely gang related and all was alcohol related. When marijuana became popular all the fighting stopped. Wha to do you know.

I'm all for harsh laws and enforcement of hard drugs but we need a common snse approach to marijuana laws.
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Re: Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:28 am

mikeandgerry wrote:Would the legalization of marijuana remove some of the allure of harder drugs for some users?


Doubtful, any more than end of Prohibition did.


mikeandgerry wrote:Since we have known for some two or three decades now that the war on drugs is impossible to win, why haven't legislators taken the same attitude you put forth, to legalize and tax it?

The public in this country is just not ready yet. Religions zealots & moralists have politicians scared of losing votes.

Freddy wrote:Except that it's been more like 4 or 5 decades, that's about where I land on this issue Legalize marijuana, tax it, and for once tell people the truth about it. After 10 yrs or so then look back & see if it helped increase or decrease harder drug use.


Agreed Fred but the government takes a hard line on any drug use & there is a huge bureaucracy which through inertia is not likely to want to give up their jobs. Just like the NRA fighting any gun law as "getting the camel's nose under the tent", DEA will fight any legalization of POT law for the same reason. Once begun, any bureaucracy is aggressively self-sustaining

coalkirk wrote:While it is probably true that 99% of herion addicts started with marijuana, it's also true that 99% of all those who smoked marijauna did not go on to become herion addicts.


& that tired old "marijuana leads to other drugs" mentality glosses over the real truth: That MILK leads to heroin addiction! ...How do I prove that?...Like Terry says "99% of all those who smoked marijuana did not go on to become heroin addicts"...but 100% of heroin addicts started life drinking milk!...Therefore, statistically speaking I can prove that milk use leads to heroin addiction!! :lol:
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Re: Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:35 am

It should be clear to all then that we need a war on milk in this country. :shock:
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Re: Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:15 am

Freddy wrote: mikeandgerry wrote:Since we have known for some two or three decades now that the war on drugs is impossible to win, why haven't legislators taken the same attitude you put forth, to legalize and tax it?

Except that it's been more like 4 or 5 decades


More than 4 or 5 decades Freddy..Take a look at this chart which shows federal anti-drug law enforcement started as far back as 1915!
Almost a full CENTURY!
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Last edited by Devil505 on Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

PostBy: SuperBeetle On: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:05 am

Drugs are a tough problem at least in this area. They had a bust last week and rounded up 19 small time dealers (heroin). I have been informed that is just a drop in the bucket so to speak and this particular area is pretty rural. All of the suspects were in their early to mid twenties. It seems to be easy money for these "kids". I don't think it will ever go away. The other side of heroin addiction is that it seems methadone is the drug of choice for withdrawal treatment and is addictive as well. In other words it's a legal addiction and money is made from that as well.
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Re: Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:26 am

Devil505 wrote:DEA Agents realize that the job we do is kinda like trying to empty the Atlantic Ocean with a teaspoon, so we prioritize the cases & go after the real bad guys who sell drugs but are typically also involved in worse crimes too...ie stolen guns, protection scams, terrorism, murder for hire, cop killing


While that is somewhat reassuring, unfortunately the repressive laws are still on the books and can be used to hammer people who are otherwise (except for drug use) squeaky-clean and respectable citizens. If you step out of line and p*ss off some politician or publicity-seeking prosecutor or cop, they have a ready-made excuse to ruin your life.
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Re: Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:31 am

Devil505 wrote:Take a look at this chart which shows federal law enforcement started as far back as 1915!
Almost a full CENTURY!


And it started at the Treasury Dept. :)
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Re: Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:34 am

Devil505 wrote:DEA will fight any legalization of POT law for the same reason. Once begun, any bureaucracy is aggressively self-sustaining

Right. Too many people making their living at fighting drugs, too much money thrown at, and skimmed from, the corrupt governments in other countries. Who wants to give up that cash cow, if they are the ones milking it?
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Re: Devil, Tell Us about the Drug Problem in the US

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:48 am

rberq wrote:While that is somewhat reassuring, unfortunately the repressive laws are still on the books and can be used to hammer people who are otherwise (except for drug use) squeaky-clean and respectable citizens. If you step out of line and p*ss off some politician or publicity-seeking prosecutor or cop, they have a ready-made excuse to ruin your life.


Absolutely! Federal Agents don't make the laws, Congress does. As long as a dumb law is still on the books, someone has sworn an oath, & often must risk their lives to enforce it. I have always felt that this nation's worst danger is not from enemies abroad, but from corrupt/stupid politicians right here! Our present problems bare this out!

coaledsweat wrote:And it started at the Treasury Dept. :)

Moonshiners used to call them Revenuers! ;)
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