Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Vinmaker On: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:08 pm

Seems to me the BPD should be installed last. Stove - MPD - BPD. The concept of a MPD is to swing open when the draft in the chimney increases due to wind, etc. The air is sucked out of the room instead of the stove. By putting the MPD first, it might goof up the natural operation of the MPD.
Vinmaker
 
Stove/Furnace Make: HARMAN
Stove/Furnace Model: SF-250

Have Insert with no place for damper???

PostBy: C.RushinGardners On: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:59 pm

I have a Baker hand fired insert, the back of the chimney is in the garage. There is a door to clean ash from the SS liner in garage. My reading on dampers are that you should not have a barometric damper in another room from the unit. I have heard opinions, from various people that it is not a serious problem, that some people operate stoves in such a manner. Just wondering what all you experienced people think? I seem to have a strong draft, though I am new to this. I have had issues, the fire will cool down, and I will open the ash door for 10 minutes, then the fire will take off. After closing the door it will get too hot 500-600 on the thermometer (stove mounted). Following advice that adding coal will cool a fire, that did work, though it still regained the heat. So I am experimenting, by opening the upper door valves a 1/4 to 1/2 turn to cool it down. The ash pan valves are at 1/2 turn, I'm hesitant to shut it totally off.

What procedures would you do to cool the fire? It seemed like cutting ash door valves to 1/2 turn did little to throttle it down. This stove is like new gaskets are good.

Will check in Monday evening , thanks, have a good day

Chuck
C.RushinGardners
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Baker

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Vinmaker On: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:56 pm

Patience. Coal requires patience. Unlike wood, coal does not flare up and calm down as quickly as a coal fire. Coal is a bit slower to heat up and a bit slower to cool down. You just need to spend some time getting to know your particular set up and seeing which settings it burns best on. It sounds like your on your way.

Vin.
Vinmaker
 
Stove/Furnace Make: HARMAN
Stove/Furnace Model: SF-250

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Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: tmckenzie On: Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:50 am

I think I am about to put in a mpd. My new saey was installed with a baro and I hate it. I can watch the stove temp, and open the baro up all the way and still have heat going up the chimney as there is no rise in stove temp. Always had one on my wood stove and when you closed it, the heat stayed in the stove. My chimney has enough draft to suck a small child up it, you can go outside on these cool mornings and see the heat coming out of the chimney. I see no down side as long as I put it before the baro.
tmckenzie
 
Stove/Furnace Make: saey
Stove/Furnace Model: 92

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: fastcat On: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:32 pm

tmckenzie wrote:I think I am about to put in a mpd. My new saey was installed with a baro and I hate it. I can watch the stove temp, and open the baro up all the way and still have heat going up the chimney as there is no rise in stove temp. Always had one on my wood stove and when you closed it, the heat stayed in the stove. My chimney has enough draft to suck a small child up it, you can go outside on these cool mornings and see the heat coming out of the chimney. I see no down side as long as I put it before the baro.


No problem putting in and MPD. This year I took my Baro out of the pipe, I found that with the baro working I had a cooler house than when I covered the Baro and just used the MPD and that was by 10* so for me no Baro anymore.
fastcat
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Nut/Stove Mix

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: grumpy On: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:09 pm

Not this thread again !! just kidding, I don't have one, My draft is just right most all of the time, and I also burn wood so it is not worth it for me. If ya don't need one don't use one..
grumpy
 

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: brfrompa On: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:55 pm

My Franco Belge 10.275 and I get along much better after MPD install.
brfrompa
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Franco Belge
Stove/Furnace Model: 10.275

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Lightning On: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:10 pm

During these awful cold days I've been clamping the baro closed in an attempt to cut down on air infiltration.. I've been trying to control draft with the MPD instead.. Seems to be working, but I'm still noticing a little yo yoing in temperature on the furnace. With these cold days, my baro is nearly wide open, sucking room air up the chimney and the draft is still too strong.. Seems like a better place for the MPD would be after the baro in these cases, but I realize that can be dangerous too.. Does anyone run a MPD after the baro to have better control of the draft?? Seems like this would be perfect case as to not suck so much room air up the chimney which in turn causes severe air infiltration from outside...
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: dcrane On: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:52 pm

Lightning wrote:During these awful cold days I've been clamping the baro closed in an attempt to cut down on air infiltration.. I've been trying to control draft with the MPD instead.. Seems to be working, but I'm still noticing a little yo yoing in temperature on the furnace. With these cold days, my baro is nearly wide open, sucking room air up the chimney and the draft is still too strong.. Seems like a better place for the MPD would be after the baro in these cases, but I realize that can be dangerous too.. Does anyone run a MPD after the baro to have better control of the draft?? Seems like this would be perfect case as to not suck so much room air up the chimney which in turn causes severe air infiltration from outside...


dont install the manual damper after the baro (thats just horrible), I dont have alot of experience with furnaces or stokers but i know id NEVER put anything after the baro if i used one.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Thomas12980 On: Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:31 am

I have a vogelzang pot bellied stove in my main room, between two rooms. I do not use a barometric damper only a manual damper on the vertical pipe just before an elbow going to the chimney thimble. The damper is wide open when I start the wood fire for an intense flame for starting the coal. Once the wood is going real good, I heap four shovel fulls of less than nut sized coal in the center. I let this burn until most of the wood is gone. By this time the coal is orange to yellow hot. I add more coal, this time nut sized also heaped in the middle. In about a half hour the whole bed is yellow/orange hot. Add more coal, wait till I see blue flames, then I turn the damper down to almost closed. Yes there are openings in the damper plate but the outrush of heated air up the chimney is curtailed and the stove retains the heat. With a combination of the air leaks on the stove, the air adjustment at the ashpan and the damper I can regulate temperature and the burn rate. I have a stack thermometer mounted on the elbow going to the thimble. Rarely do I see that temperature get to over 200 degrees. It idles along at about 150-175 degrees. The stove is by now radiating heat into the room(s).
Thomas12980
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vogelzang Pot Bellied
Stove/Furnace Model: Vogelzang Pot Belly

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:35 am

Thomas12980 wrote:I have a vogelzang pot bellied stove in my main room, between two rooms. I do not use a barometric damper only a manual damper on the vertical pipe just before an elbow going to the chimney thimble.


Your like me ;) BUT... Lightning has a Hotblast i think and its very different for him, (I think he really must use a Baro), the mpd is just a way for him to try to help "slow the flow" so to speak to conserve the heat in the stove without pulling all that heated air right up the dang flue as the baro maintains its "set" draft :cry: I just dont think its a good idea to try to hinder a baro's mechanics/weight by jamming up the flue past it (that cant be a safe option in my mind because remember you have all those nasty gases being pumped/forced from the furnace up and out that flue wear its going to passing by this huge gapping hole (the baro) before a huge potential restriction (the mpd) :fear:

@thomas... have you tried your damper on the horizontal pipe instead of the vertical pipe?
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Thomas12980 On: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:32 pm

I don't have a horizontal pipe. my outflow comes from the rear of the stove and goes vertical for about two feet to an elbow, then through a thimble into the chimney. the damper is right below the elbow.
Thomas12980
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vogelzang Pot Bellied
Stove/Furnace Model: Vogelzang Pot Belly

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: BPatrick On: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:32 pm

Greg...I've used MPD's for years and your hate spewed towards them is rediculous. I have the old antique ones (MPD's)...built like a brick *censored* house. The springs aren't going anywhere like you incredulously suggest. I have two MPD's...one within 1 foot of the stack and another 16" higher. My Herold burns, with the two bottom air vents closed at 600-650 degrees for 11-14 hours, I have the firepot with a 1" refractory cement. I've burned in all weather conditions, with my Herold 116 in high winds, fog, heavy snow, no wind, 55 degree weather and with -13 degree weather and never, never have I had an issue where my stove mysteriously ran away. Or went out or pumped CO into the house. I have smoke detectors and CO detectors and they never go off. I change batteries every 6 months...the whole common sense thing... It's like your trying to use scare tactics to ward off newcomers with questions. First and foremost, if your stove isn't in proper working condition you can't control airintake...if you can't get one that can...get yours rebuilt but don't blame a MPD for a stove issue. I've never heard of anyone with a good hand fired stove have it run away. Generations of people used them without issue. My grandparents have told me hundreds of stories, not one of them started with boy I wish I had a baro dampener..You cannot drive your car forever...you need routine maintainence. Every stove needs it too. To say MPDs are unsafe is just wrong...there is more than one way to do something, because its not your way doesn't make it wrong. Heating oil killed the coal stove. Spend some money, get a quality stove, if there is problem fix it or have someone else do it. If your stove is working properly, your MPD will work fine...I have two, all old antique, not new crap, and I burn coal so I don't worry about creosote...baro dampeners are more problematic with creosote than MPD. if I sound pissed its because I am...your comments are offensive to those that carefully choose good quality stoves and MPD's, like we are wreckless. I spent a lot of money and had a friend of Emery build me a stove. He didnt' cut corners and neither did I. Also, I professionally installed the stack and did everything right. To imply that I'm unsafe because I use a MPD is bullcrap. Trying to be nice because I'm new to the board but I feel like your trying to bully people into doing it one way. I did alot of research before buying and having my herold restored. All the experts said that you need a MPD not a baro. These guys know there stuff and they say that baro's won't allow a hand fired antique stove to run. I live in Michigan where we get heavy snow, winds off the lake and every weather imaginable. Burned either wood or coal now for two decades and my MPD has never failed me. I buy quality stoves and have them installed correctly and run smoke detectors and CO detectors. I'm not unsafe period.
Last edited by BPatrick on Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
BPatrick
 
Baseburners & Antiques: 2 Crawford 40 Baseheaters
Coal Size/Type: Stove Coal
Other Heating: Herald Oak No. 18

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: dcrane On: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:11 pm

BPatrick wrote:Greg...I've used MPD's for years and your hate spewed towards them is rediculous. I have the old antique ones (MPD's)...built like a brick *censored* house. The springs aren't going anywhere like you incredulously suggest. I have two MPD's...one within 1 foot of the stack and another 16" higher. My Herold burns, with the two bottom air vents closed at 600-650 degrees for 11-14 hours, I have the firepot with a 1" refractory cement. I've burned in all weather conditions, with my Herold 116 in high winds, fog, heavy snow, no wind, 55 degree weather and with -13 degree weather and never, never have I had an issue where my stove mysteriously ran away. Or went out or pumped CO into the house. I have smoke detectors and CO detectors and they never go off. I change batteries every 6 months...the whole common sense thing... It's like your trying to use scare tactics to ward off newcomers with questions. First and foremost, if your stove is in proper working condition you can control airintake...if you can't get one that can...get yours rebuilt but don't blame a MPD for a stove issue. I've never heard of anyone with a good hand fired stove have it run away. Generations of people used them without issue. My grandparents have told me hundreds of stories, not one of them started with boy I wish I had a baro dampener..You cannot drive your car forever...you need routine maintainence. Every stove needs it too. To say MPDs are unsafe is just wrong...there is more than one way to do something, because its not your way doesn't make it wrong. Heating oil killed the coal stove. Spend some money, get a quality stove, if there is problem fix it or have someone else do it. If your stove is working properly, your MPD will work fine...I have two, all old antique, not new crap, and I burn coal so I don't worry about creosote...baro dampeners are more problematic with creosote than MPD. if I sound pissed its because I am...your comments are offensive to those that carefully choose good quality stoves and MPD's, like we are wreckless. I spent a lot of money and had a friend of Emery build me a stove. He didnt' cut corners and neither did I. Also, I professionally installed the stack and did everything right. To imply that I'm unsafe because I use a MPD is bullcrap. Trying to be nice because I'm new to the board but I feel like your trying to bully people into doing it one way. I did alot of research before buying and having my herold restored. All the experts said that you need a MPD not a baro. These guys know there stuff and they say that baro's won't allow a hand fired antique stove to run. I live in Michigan where we get heavy snow, winds off the lake and every weather imaginable. Burned either wood or coal now for two decades and my MPD has never failed me. I buy quality stoves and have them installed correctly and run smoke detectors and CO detectors. I'm not unsafe period.


Yaaaaaa... what he said! ^^^ :P

In all seriousness this has always been a touchy subject around here (like the nepacrossroad assault weapon freeks VS us pro reform sweethearts)LOL... but we still love each other and they would be first to tell ya ;) so dont let Greg's opinion upset you to much, its just a matter of people trying their own thing and getting some feedback from EVERYONE to make a more informed determination. I use an MPD like you but i know their are certain stoves or situations that may require the use of a Baro as well.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

PostBy: Lightning On: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:39 pm

BPatrick wrote:if I sound pissed its because I am

Don't get too uptight, he means well :D ..... Actually I think a good coal burner will recognize that they are better together. Under extreme conditions, such as very cold or high winds when my baro will only get my draft down to a -.05 or -.06" WC, I'll close the MPD to get it further down to a -.03" WC.. Then you have the precise negative pressure you desire and the stability of heat output that the baro provides thru its constant regulation of draft pressure..

So stick that in yer stove and burn it :lol:
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

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