Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

PostBy: snuffy On: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:33 am

Hi Guys,

I hope someone knows the answer to this oddball question: Does polyurethane varnish contain any metal compounds. The only answer I could find was that of alkyl tin mercaptides or carboxylates.

Why is this important? Well, this is an oddball answer but believe me it expensively true.

I set up a room for my wife for when she has migraines (usually three day events). Her migraines are triggered by nearby magnetized metals. It occurs because she had a crainotomy in 1994 and the closures used to sew up her skull was stainless steel sutures which are permanent and not removable. Somehow these sutures became (or were installed) magnetized, hence anytime she comes in contact (sometimes less then 20 feet) with a magnetized metal, a physics principle called mutual induction results, and because the sutures are exposed to the under skull or menges (nerve rich area) a migraine will result. This is the short answer.

Anyway, in setting up this room, I bought a new twin size bed set ($1,200) along with a headboard and tailboard ($650). I set it up and WAM, head pain. After examining its construction, I removed all metal screws and replaced it with non-magnetic brass screws ($40). Still the head pain was there. Now, remembering how lead paint was formulated and now banned, I began wondering whether the headboard varnish finish contained any trace admixture metals such as the tin listed above.

Now I'm out almost $1,800 (or the cost of a new Harman Mark III) and haven't solved the migraine retreat room issue. Any ideas on whether furniture grade finish contains metal compounds is appreciated?

Oh, BTW, surgery won't work and is too risky because her initial Neurosurgeon epoxied the sutures at the time of her surgery.

Thanks in advance for your help!
snuffy
 
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Re: Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

PostBy: Freddy On: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:33 am

First, migraines are no fun. I've had just enough of them in my life to know that I never want another. I'll say a prayer that your wife finds relief.

I trust the new mattress is all foam & no springs?

There is no iron in a normal urethane finish. I say "normal" because iron can be added for special purposes, but it adds cost & is only done for special reasons in research. You find things like "Flexible high-loading nanoparticle-reinforced polyurethane magnetic nanocomposites fabricated by the surface-initiated polymerization". I'm pretty sure you're not going to find nanoparticles in paint like finishes.

Lead is non-ferrous (not iron) and thus is non magnetic.

I can't imagine trying to live a magnet free life....they are everywhere. Even if something metal is not magnetic it can be if it's dropped. All you have to do is hit a rod shaped piece of metal on an end & it becomes somewhat magnetic. Drop a butter knife, it hits the floor on it's end, you now have a magnet. Around the house... any motor, clock, credit card, VCR tape, camera, speakers, computer, printer, geepers, the list is near unending. Magnets are everywhere. The one saving feature is that as you increase the distance from a magnet it's strength is reduced by a factor of the distanced squared. So it quickly get's much less as you get away from it.
Freddy
 
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Re: Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

PostBy: Yanche On: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:52 pm

I don't know if the finish is magnetic or not. But I would make the following suggestion. Try to quantify your wife's sensitivity to magnetic fields by measuring the magnetic field using a sensitive magnetometer. Measure areas/items that cause headaches and those that do not. Then use the instrument to measure things you buy or changes in the environment to predict potential problems. I have limited experience measuring weak magnetic fields, but know it can be done. I spent weeks on Navy P3 Orion airplanes finding Russian subs in the Pacific Ocean between Hawaii and Alaska. The on-board magnetometers were very, very sensitive, sufficiently so to find submerged subs. The magnetic field generated by the plane was carefully nulled out to get this sensitivity. Perhaps such an approach could be used to provide an magnetic free zone, i.e., create a magnetic field that opposes what's present.

Try to get some help from a research teaching hospital that's part of a university. It would make a good research topic for a master's or doctor's thesis. Good luck.
Yanche
 
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Re: Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

PostBy: snuffy On: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:14 am

Freddy and Yanche,

I've made a presentation to Jefferson Headache Center but they are stumped and basically stated they aren't even remotely trained in the physics aspects of this problem. Needless to say, I was stunned to hear this from a top researcher there. Also presented to a Neurosurgeon holding a BS and MS in Electrical Engineering and he was stumped as well. Both Doctor's as well as other surgeons and Neurologists did not realize that such a basic physic principle could be a migraine trigger. Once I refreshed them on their physics they came to understand this unusual but repeatable phenomena. I'm attaching a CT picture below to show the sutures which are a little hard to see because they are slightly thicker then light bulb filament and are double wrapped which introduces another physics concept called mutual induction and induced magnetism. I never thought that at this point in life that I'd be doing medical research but that's how it is.

I've nailed down many of the triggers such as those that you guys listed. Strangely, this headboard phenomenon has me stumped. I eliminated all of the triggers in the room (including the bed frame) and she is comfortable but as soon as the headboard is brought in but not attached she senses the head pain beginning. After deconstructing the whole headboard, the varnish film is all that I'm left with. I haven't purchased a EMF meter such as the Alpha Labs Trifield Natural Electromagnetic meter or the EMF meter because of the costs, but I do use a simple compass to get the job done and works well so far. I don't think she'd survive a "Navy" DeGaussing.

We're aware that we won't achieve a completely free zone and she can be around some of the items you listed but she needs to have the sutured surgical side shielded aways from the fields and believe it or not that does help. In fact she can be directly in front of a computer screen but if she turns away from it she'll get zapped from the fields.
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snuffy
 
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Re: Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:08 am

My sympathies are with you and your wife and anybody who suffers from migraines.

You are at least as qualified as the docs to conduct medical research as you are not preconditioned by poor training. I am extremely impressed with your progress so far. Defining a cause and effect for migraines? That puts you way ahead of the medical community.

These electrical storms once triggered last up to three days whether the original stimulus was there or not. I suspect these cluster headaches are overstimulaton of the trigeminal nerve which goes everywhere in the head. I worked for two years on a tryptylene analog which was a bit like Sumatriptan. The trial was a failure as there were too many causes of the storm start to get any meaningful data and this is why this class of drug only works in about 15% of patients and even then it is short term relief.

Beware of the universal law of clinical studies which says - true, true and unrelated. I think you can guess what I mean.

As hard as this is, this is how you define your own clinical protocol. I think you have defined a trigger in some magnetic device in your house. Thus is tin foil hat routine time. A little foil and a coat hanger that might afford relief, yes or no? Yes? OK then make something cosmetically appealing into a hat. No, then suspect other areas of the trigeminal nerve like dental work. Make a total head cover with a small breathe hole for a fast experiment. Same effect or different? There are two things to pin down. Which part of the trigeminal nerve is to blame and how to break the pain cascade. Pain like this is always a cascade that can be broken at many points. . This is a coal board so this is enough for now. I am suspicious of the magnetic induction. Think about it for a second, a tightly coiled suture and magnetic induction? Think about how synapses trigger, in a world of total information you will find out what I mean . I am more suspicious of other things.

Good luck to you.
coalnewbie
 
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Re: Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

PostBy: snuffy On: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:58 am

Coalnewbie,

Thanks for the suggestions. Maxalt MLT 10mg is the only triptan drug that works provided that she treats quickly (minutes) and reacts immediately (seconds) to turn away from the exposure. It seems that the quick absorption formula is critical for most trigger exposures (2,153 headache days out of 4,745 days since treatment began and that doesn't count the additional 1,800 days of undiagnoised and undertreated days prior to Maxalt introduction) since the hardware was installed.

Regarding testing, I've set up blind study (absent any stimuli including household power turned off at the breaker box) and the nearest powered home about 100 feet distant, and she can still pick out the directional location of a magnetized 2" lag bolt screw from 18 feet distance. I had her recently pass a compass past the sutures and she felt a tingling sensation that continued to resonate and requiring a Maxalt. I realize this all sounds fantastic, but this is her life and mine now. As a problems and solutions guy, I have no choice but to continue trying to solve this exceedingly complex issue. I agree that the trigeminal nerve is involved but having a medical professional map it out seems to be beyond their comprehension simply because they have no training in this area. Never in my life did I think the Good Lord would hand me such a challenge and make this my calling. BTW, I've identified other patients using the Brain Aneurysm Foundation Forum as a research tool. It's also difficult to assess there because of the wide variety of cognitive outcomes from such a violent surgery. I should mention that when we are traveling in a vehicle, I have her strap a static disbursement band on her wrist which is grounded to the chassis and this really helps reduce the pain for her as we pass various transformers, power lines, and cell towers. Understanding the concept of how this solution works still has me perplexed.

As a research guy, I really have to hand to the folks contributing here on this form, they collectively offer more insight to everyday solvable problems then any other website let alone a research University setting.

Again, any thoughts or ideas are so welcome because I'm flapping in the wind alone on this one.
snuffy
 
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Re: Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

PostBy: NoSmoke On: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:56 am

I cannot offer any advice, but like Freddy will pray for you.

I have migraines myself and get treated for it and know that they SUCK. My daughter is 8 and has seizures as well.

I find your post interesting though because the triggers have always had me stumped. You give me something to think about.
NoSmoke
 
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Re: Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

PostBy: Dann757 On: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:24 pm

I thought stainless steel is non-magnetic. Couldn't you look into having the sutures de-gaussed? Also, there has to be a multitude of nails in the floors walls and ceilings. My neice suffers from headaches and no one has been able to help her. I pray for your wife and hope she feels better.

Here's something that just came to me off the internet, I surely need to consider it, hope it helps:

Gratitude
==========

Years ago I was in a devastating accident.

I am still in recovery daily.

The thing that has pulled me through it all has been having an
Attitude of Gratitude.

When I read the issue "Why Me," I wanted to share with you what
I have learned to do for myself each and every day.

To keep an Attitude of Gratitude at all times,
I have learned to have a "Gratitude Prayer" once a day.

I have this prayer just before laying down for the night.

I do nothing in it but pray my thankfulness for things that I am
grateful for on that particular day.

When I first started this practice, my prayers were very short.

As the years have passed, they have become a time of peace each
day that I look forward to as I share with my Father in Heaven
all the bounty He has given me that day.

I acknowledge His hand in the giving of that bounty.

My world is beautiful because of constant gratitude.

I have made it such a part of my life, that at times during the
day when something happens, I raise my eyes to Heaven and say
"Thank you, God."

My change in taking charge of my life in this manner has indeed
been a gift, for I have a constant smile, inside and out,
by merely looking at the world differently.

Sue Adams
Cheyenne, Wyoming

Why Me? http://www.mountainwings.com/past/2126.htm
Dann757
 

Re: Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

PostBy: snuffy On: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:57 am

Hi Guys, (I tried to make this brief as possible :shock: )

Freddy: If I understand correctly, a unmagnetized stainless steel lag screw can become magnetized due to the torque of screwing the screw and the friction and heat generated?

Yanche: I've investigated Mu metals to shield the opposing force but it didn't appear practical because of shaping difficulties.

Coalnewbie: The coat hanger, as well as white metal closet shelving are also triggers. Regarding the magnetic induction, I offer the following information I have found on the subject: "Magnetohydrodynamic effects When an electrically conductive fluid, such as blood, endolymph fluid, or aqueous fluid flows within a magnetic field, an electric current is produced, as is a force opposing the flow. For example, within blood vessels, the potential across such a vessel" (Duke-UNC Brain Imaging and Analysis Center Tutorial); Ferromagnetism is caused by spinning electrons in the atoms of the material, which act as tiny weak magnets. They align parallel to each other within small regions of the material to form domains, or areas of stronger magnetism. In an unmagnetized material, the domains are aligned at random so there is no overall magnetic effect. If a magnetic field is applied to that material, the domains align to point in the same direction, producing a strong overall magnetic effect; When EM radiation impinges upon a conductor (in this case the sutures, it couples to the conductor, travels along it, and induces an electric current on the surface of that conductor by exciting the electrons of the conducting material. This effect (the skin effect) is used in antennas; While the brain itself has no pain receptors, the
MENINGES(the ultrathin membranes that surround the brain), blood vessels, and bony anatomy of the head through which the stainless steel bone flap sutures traverse have an intricate system of small nerve branches that are sensitive to pain; Induced Magnetism in a ferromagnetic material can be surprising large, even in the presence of a weak external field… hundred to a thousand times stronger than the external field.

Here is an example of one of the complexities. A properly energized and grounded refrigerator will not trigger head pain, yet a closed steel garage door will. When the garage door is opened and horizontal it triggers no pain. All I have done in the garage door example is to reduce the field by orientation of the magnetic field such as a + sign. Why a grounded refrigerator with a large vertical mass and a static wrist strap grounded to a car body triggers no pain is really baffling. Furthermore, the orientation of two electrical motors such as a ceiling fan vs a table top fan make a difference in the perception of pain. The ceiling fan is way greater while the table top fan is very slight. Again it is two different orientations of the magnetic field.

Nosmoke: I have some associated information that may help you and your daughter identify triggers. PM me if you would like to read it.

Dann757: Apparently the process for making stainless steel changed about 20 years ago according to my source. Pre 1992 a process called passivation was eliminated and this could make stainless steel magnetic. My wife surgery was in 1994. I wonder if the FDA was aware of this process change. Back then electronics and digital equipment was not a prevelant as today's electronics. Your right that there are a multitude of triggers within our home but we conducted all tests in isolation as best we could. Without the headboard she has no pain at all even though the bed has some metal offenders as well. If you would like the information I offered to Coalnewbie let me know.

Finally, today I decided to try an alternative. I plan to oxidize the boards in the strong sunlight over the next few days. Already today, when I brought the boards in, they smelled to high heaven. I'm hypothesizing that maybe the sunlight photons can blast any nano or micro metals. Should this make matters worse, I'll just have to use elbow grease and sand off the finish off and refinish with a product that I've previously used without any problem.
snuffy
 
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Other Heating: Oil Hot Water

Re: Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

PostBy: Freddy On: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:38 am

snuffy wrote:If I understand correctly, a unmagnetized stainless steel lag screw can become magnetized due to the torque of screwing the screw and the friction and heat generated?


(Ferrous) Metals becomes a magnet when their internal micro-crystalline structures are aligned. (Or maybe it's the electrons that get aligned?) Nonetheless, This alignment can be weak or strong depending on just what the metal is made of, and how the alignment takes place. Magnets are usually made by exposing the metal to a strong magnetic field. This aligns the electrons & now you have a magnet. However another way to align these electrons is to physically strike it on one end. When you strike a metal rod on it's end it makes a weak magnet as the acceleration forces things into alignment. I doubt the act of screwing in a bolt would make a magnet as you are not accelerating it in the right direction. Picture in your head a rod with hundreds of little strings glued to it. At rest the strings lay in all directions. If you strike it on one end, the strings now move such that they are in line with the rod, but, if you screw it in, it would make the strings wrap around the rod. Any magnetism would be across the rod in a spiral position. Any magnetism would be very very weak. As for heat producing a magnet, no, enough heat completely demagnetizes a magnet.
Freddy
 
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Re: Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

PostBy: tsb On: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:03 am

Snuffy,

Is your wife on any kind of blood pressure medicine ? If not
you may want to try a low dose diuretic. It helps members of
my family.
Good luck in your quest.
tsb
 
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Re: Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

PostBy: snuffy On: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:57 pm

TSB

We tried that early on and have consistently monitored BP. You are right in that it does work for some folks. She runs low pressure with no spikes and otherwise is in exceptional health. Her Neurologist for the last 14 years agrees with our finding. She can pick out the magnetized metal versus aluminum every time the test is done on the right side. So far as he can tell, this is the first diagnosis of its kind. She's also tried many of the antidepressants but they were useless, unless one like to be a zombie.

I should also mention that I can trigger the head pain in her as well by flashing a small AAA battery size flashlight on any of the suture locations for just a few seconds. The light, called photons, is also an electromagnetic frequency. I don't do this often except for professional demonstration.

If this keeps up I may have to move her back to our ancestrial homeland in the Scottish Islands.
snuffy
 
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Re: Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

PostBy: tsb On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:33 pm

Snuffy,

If you have the option to go to Scotland, I'd go even if I wasn't ill.
You may run into magnetic bed rock that could be worse than here.
tsb
 
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Re: Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

PostBy: snuffy On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:28 pm

My wife has been so screwed with this unfortunate surgical result. Eighteen years ago her choice was brain surgery or certain death. This unkind result was never anticipated. Had the surgery occurred a year later she would have had titanium hinges and screws rather then metal sutures.

FYI, as I built a temporary platform for the bed, we discovered that at the new height a new offender lurked. Out came the compass traced along the wall between the adjacent bathroom. I have to credit my wife for finding this source. Turns out it was a metal towel hangar screwed to the wall. I removed it, retraced the compass and the deflection was gone so we now know that area is safe for her. You kind of get the bigger picture of what her daily life is like and this is only a small part.

I guess Costa Rica might be pretty!
snuffy
 
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Re: Metal content in Polyurthane Varnish

PostBy: snuffy On: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:29 am

The varnish used is only available to manufacturer's of furniture. One of the components is bis(2-ethylhexyl)-1,4-benzenedicarboxylate. This chemical group is termed carbon loving and stainless steel sutures are also carbon based so a magnetic molecular affinity results apparently.

Dann757 mentioned something that prompted me to look into deeper and that was his thought that stainless steel was non magnetic. Turns out it was until sometime around 1990 when a process called passivation was dropped from some formulations. Different products became available including 304, 316, and a group for medical use Grade 316LVM. Further research suggested that the non magnetic versions could become magnetized if a coating was broken or degraded by intergranular corrosion. This can also occur by over torquing or over bending the wire thereby providing ingress for the magnetic field to the carbon atoms. In reviewing the CT scan, the over bending is evident due to the triangular application and knotting of the tied off wire ends. Because the sutures are just below the skin, there would be no protection against magnetic fields hence the central nervous system interprets any interaction as pain.

A big thank you to Dann757, Coalnewbie, Freddy, tsb, Nosmoke, and Yanche. Your thoughts and replies are greatly appreciated and have helped me get closer to a solution to help my wife. Our remaining problem will be educating Doctors in an arena for which they have no training.
snuffy
 
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