Things like this don't happen in the land of the free, ...

Re: Things like this don't happen in the land of the free, ...

PostBy: lsayre On: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:47 pm

Northern Maine wrote:Interpret as you may...ward of the state is extreme....the life of a child with options to have the child live is another....life is priceless....


So despite speaking in circles you are convinced that we must be wards of the state in order to raise children (who are likewise merely wards of the state).
lsayre
 
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Re: Things like this don't happen in the land of the free, ...

PostBy: grumpy On: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:53 pm

Northern Maine wrote:
grumpy wrote:
Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position by presenting only one side of an argument. Propaganda is usually repeated and dispersed over a wide variety of media in order to create the chosen result in audience attitudes.


That does not answer my question.


Both media you presented is propaganda in my opinion/interpretation of what you would like to convey...what "pre tel" are you trying to convey that you must mask it in such a medium?


And your welcome to it, just history to me, the birth certificate video is just fact. Today it goes a step further, they take your DNA when your born.

I will add, I posted at 6:11, you replied at 6:25, the videos ran 24 minutes, Hum....
Last edited by grumpy on Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
grumpy
 

Re: Things like this don't happen in the land of the free, ...

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:00 pm

That does not answer my question.[/quote]

Both media you presented is propaganda in my opinion/interpretation of what you would like to convey...what "pre tel" are you trying to convey that you must mask it in such a medium?[/quote]

And your welcome to it, just history to me, the birth certificate video is just fact. Today it goes a step further, they take your DNA when your born.[/quote]

The birth certificate is an innuendo that our current POTUS is not a USC....I may not support him....but that argument is WEAK at best!
Northern Maine
 
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Re: Things like this don't happen in the land of the free, ...

PostBy: grumpy On: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:05 pm

Northern Maine wrote:That does not answer my question.


Both media you presented is propaganda in my opinion/interpretation of what you would like to convey...what "pre tel" are you trying to convey that you must mask it in such a medium?[/quote]

And your welcome to it, just history to me, the birth certificate video is just fact. Today it goes a step further, they take your DNA when your born.[/quote]

The birth certificate is an innuendo that our current POTUS is not a USC....I may not support him....but that argument is WEAK at best![/quote]


Argument? POTUS? Is I stated above, you did not watch the videos.. I see that now for sure.
grumpy
 

Re: Things like this don't happen in the land of the free, ...

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:54 pm

Northern Maine wrote:
lsayre wrote:So having children forces us to become wards of the state (I.E., of the statists)?

PS: I believe MSM means mainstream media.


Interpret as you may...ward of the state is extreme....the life of a child with options to have the child live is another....life is priceless....


But is the ONLY way to vaccinate the public is to do so at the point of a gun?

Can't reasonable, educated people make decisions for themselves?

You are open to "interpretations" of you rights granted by your Creator but are rigidly FOR being forced to do what the state tells you is best for you?
jpete
 
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Re: Things like this don't happen in the land of the free, ...

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:30 am

I have been out but I will jump in and say that in the case of vaccinations there is a percentage of children that are adversely affected and some die. It is a parallel of the statement,"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." to the statist view that everyone must follow the program for the good of the most. Parents are again making those decisions for their kids ad being vilified for it. The cops are demanding the return of the child out west who's parents took her to Mexico. Bu what right?

Kevin
KLook
 
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Re: Things like this don't happen in the land of the free, ...

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:31 am

There's a % of people that get run over in traffic after looking both ways before crossing the road--do we stop teaching are children to do this???
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Re: Things like this don't happen in the land of the free, ...

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:30 am

freetown fred wrote:There's a % of people that get run over in traffic after looking both ways before crossing the road--do we stop teaching are children to do this???


No, we merely turn the responsibility for teaching them over to the state.

Ok, Fred you are right! My response above was made to mimick the response of a died in the wool statist. Statists believe that as wards of the state, you and your children must be taught by the state, innoculated by the state, indoctrinated by the state, and go through life as broken, subdued, and passified (through fear or whatever other motivator is required) sheep of the state.
lsayre
 
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Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: Things like this don't happen in the land of the free, ...

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:49 am

lsayre wrote:
freetown fred wrote:There's a % of people that get run over in traffic after looking both ways before crossing the road--do we stop teaching are children to do this???


No, we merely turn the responsibility for teaching them over to the state.

Ok, Fred you are right! My response above was made to mimick the response of a died in the wool statist. Statists believe that as wards of the state, you and your children must be taught by the state, innoculated by the state, indoctrinated by the state, and go through life as broken, subdued, and passified (through fear or whatever other motivator is required) sheep of the state.


You assume a lot. Libertarianism is the belief that privatization is wonderful, we don't need a military, that no government is the best government (even though some government is necessary), and that any public service should be fully paid for by those who use it (such as public transportation, public parks, police forces, and so on). Government should not interfere in the day to day workings of mankind, victimless crimes should be abolished, and that you should not be forced to do anything you do not want to do. These are all laudable goals. But they have there place...in small doeses! If Libertarians ran the country, then there would not be any way to maintain a currency -- there would be no taxes, therefore there would be no central monetary supply. Banks would be forced to take on the duty of creating money (this is actually their function -- loaning out money that has already been deposited, thereby making it look like there's more money in circulation), but because there would be no central bank that could regulate the value of that money, it would be difficult to maintain confidence in the money supply.

Even if this wasn't true, there would be no money to maintain public works -- water, electricity, phone -- and there would be no way to prevent the companies that took over those functions from charging more than the public could bear. (Per-minute rates on phone service, electrical service, massive per-gallon charges on water, gas, heating oil. coal...)

Businesses exist to make money. Corporations exist to make money for their stockholders. Corporations do not exist to have a sense of ethics, and they will not use the money that they have to maintain the environment. They will not, unless forced to, share the natural resources that everyone is entitled to under current law.

What Libertarians would do? There would be no governmental support for maintaining the environment. There would be no governmental support or mandates! The environment would get more and more polluted, the car companies would go back to creating less fuel-efficient automobiles that produced more pollution, the electrical companies would end up saving too much energy in their huge batteries (since they would be charging too much for people to use the electricity in the first place), and either shut down power production at some of their plants, or overload the power grid and shut the entire thing down...

Regulation exists to protect us all. I'm all for less government, but I cannot accept the idea of no government.
Northern Maine
 
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Re: Things like this don't happen in the land of the free, ...

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:04 am

You will remain a staist, and I will not. To each his own.
lsayre
 
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Re: Things like this don't happen in the land of the free, ...

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:13 am

lsayre wrote:You will remain a staist, and I will not. To each his own.


In political science, statism is the belief that a government should control either economic or social policy, or both, to some degree. Statism is effectively the opposite of anarchism. Statism can take many forms. Minarchists prefer a minimal or night watchman state to protect people from aggression, theft, breach of contract, and fraud with military, police, and courts. Some may also include fire departments, prisons, and other functions. Totalitarians prefer a maximum or all encompassing state. Limited government, welfare state, and other options make up the middle territory of the scale of statism of which I may support. Some libertarians use the term statist in a derogatory sense as you do, however, don't assume a label and complain about without actively pursuing insightful change that can be supported by a majority....it would be a waste of time!!!!!! Please share with me a developed country that has used libertarianism successfully in it's total theory!
Northern Maine
 
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Re: Things like this don't happen in the land of the free, ...

PostBy: SteveZee On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:46 am

All of this is complex and raises many provocative questions and answers. As a society, there is always a number line, bell curve, call it what you like, of how much "intrusion" for lack of a better term local and federal government can or will have in peoples lives. It seems to be in a state of flux where the median floats one way or the other depending on circumtance and events that happen. Our country has changed mightily IMO, since it's infancy. Some of it's good, some not so much.
My personal opinion, for whatever it's worth, it that we have gone overboard with the legislating of laws and attemp to much control on the populace. One example is the fact that as a nation (The Land of the Free mind you) we have the largest prison population of any country on the planet and that is not per capita, it is numbers of people period. We have corporation (for profit) running "chains" of prisons. For me,this statistic alone tells me something is very wrong. Oh and about 20% or more of these prisoners are incarcerated for non-violent drug offenses, which is another whole issue in the land of the free. Provocative much? 8-)
SteveZee
 
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Re: Things like this don't happen in the land of the free, ...

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:11 pm

SteveZee wrote:All of this is complex and raises many provocative questions and answers. As a society, there is always a number line, bell curve, call it what you like, of how much "intrusion" for lack of a better term local and federal government can or will have in peoples lives. It seems to be in a state of flux where the median floats one way or the other depending on circumtance and events that happen. Our country has changed mightily IMO, since it's infancy. Some of it's good, some not so much.
My personal opinion, for whatever it's worth, it that we have gone overboard with the legislating of laws and attemp to much control on the populace. One example is the fact that as a nation (The Land of the Free mind you) we have the largest prison population of any country on the planet and that is not per capita, it is numbers of people period. We have corporation (for profit) running "chains" of prisons. For me,this statistic alone tells me something is very wrong. Oh and about 20% or more of these prisoners are incarcerated for non-violent drug offenses, which is another whole issue in the land of the free. Provocative much? 8-)


We are all but a number...the law does not recognize that! Interference in our freedom to break the law is yet wrong!
Northern Maine
 
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