Can I Run My Circulator....

Re: Can I Run My Circulator....

PostBy: KLook On: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:30 pm

DO tell, why would they do that?? It just uses electricity for no gain. I have heard my Plumbing & Heating buddy talk about systems that knotheads did that he fixed where the circulator was so strong it was pulling water through the closed valves. Heating all zones or some zones whenever there was a call. Is there a reason anyone can think of to run one 24/7?

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Can I Run My Circulator....

PostBy: Sting On: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:34 am

KLook wrote:DO tell, why would they do that??
Kevin


because it eliminates a start and stop step in the control wiring - lazy - simple - usually a bullet proof short cut to get the system up and running

Remember old systems didn't have to run efficiently -- they only had to keep the dwelling comfortable - and if a pump ran 24/7 it only consumed a little electricity for many years -- but if the installer had to sell and install one or more relays to control the pump(s) -- the cost of the system install was passed on the day the bill for the service was cut -- and the lowest bidder always get the job
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: Can I Run My Circulator....

PostBy: Freddy On: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:43 am

My guess: As long as the pump has water in it a 007 should be OK. To run dry for long would be a bad thing. (not that running it valved closed wet is a good thing!)
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined


Re: Can I Run My Circulator....

PostBy: KLook On: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:19 am

and the lowest bidder always get the job


Great explanation Sting, particularly that last part. I certainly saw my share of that in building houses. And learned to see it in the systems the subs put in the houses.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Can I Run My Circulator....

PostBy: Boots On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:28 pm

Sting wrote:NEVER restrict the flow of liquid to a wet system pump - that will cause a cavitation


does this mean "throttling" a valve to slow the flow through a zone is bad?


KLook wrote:DO tell, why would they do that??


I have a circulator that runs 24/7 during heating season. it allows my coal boiler to keep my oil boiler up to temp. does that make me a bad person?
Boots
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Burnham SFB 101 (sold)

Re: Can I Run My Circulator....

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:39 pm

Not the same thing as running it 24/7 and shutting of the flow to it. i also run one 24/7 in my radiant slab injection system. And I also run a small one to circulate from the top of my boiler back to the bottom.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Can I Run My Circulator....

PostBy: coalkirk On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:07 pm

Boots wrote:I have a circulator that runs 24/7 during heating season. It allows my coal boiler to keep my oil boiler up to temp. does that make me a bad person?


No that doesn't make you a bad person. If it does, I'm bad too. I have one that runs 24/7 for the same reason you do. My oil boiler and coal boiler are 40' apart. All my zones come off of the oil boiler so I want it hot all the time. The 24/7 pump, a 10 year old Grundos is pumping away from the coal boiler. I think start up is harder on a pump than constant duty. I could be FOS.
hopper dust hood.jpg
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coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Can I Run My Circulator....

PostBy: Boots On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:42 pm

coalkirk wrote:
Boots wrote:I have a circulator that runs 24/7 during heating season. It allows my coal boiler to keep my oil boiler up to temp. does that make me a bad person?


No that doesn't make you a bad person. If it does, I'm bad too. I have one that runs 24/7 for the same reason you do. My oil boiler and coal boiler are 40' apart. All my zones come off of the oil boiler so I want it hot all the time. The 24/7 pump, a 10 year old Grundos is pumping away from the coal boiler. I think start up is harder on a pump than constant duty. I could be FOS.
hopper dust hood.jpg


in your pic I'm assuming what Im looking at on left side of pic is coal auger . and the smaller black hose is maybe vacuum to eliminate dust?
also the indicator light on the circulator is that to let you know it is running? that is nice.
Boots
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Burnham SFB 101 (sold)

Re: Can I Run My Circulator....

PostBy: Sting On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:12 pm

Boots wrote:
Sting wrote:NEVER restrict the flow of liquid to a wet system pump - that will cause a cavitation


does this mean "throttling" a valve to slow the flow through a zone is bad?



no -- it means = do not restrict the intake side of the pump with "throttling" - its fine to "throttle" as you write on the so called "pressure" side of the pump

I have written lots of drivel on this foolishness - lost some place in a different life on these pages - a search should bring the answers you seek
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: Can I Run My Circulator....

PostBy: Boots On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:31 pm

NEVER restrict the flow of liquid to a wet system pump


gotcha,
Boots
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Burnham SFB 101 (sold)

Re: Can I Run My Circulator....

PostBy: steamup On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:45 pm

kstills wrote:...against a closed valve without burning it out? For extended periods of time?



As Sting would often say "it depends".

Certainly it is bad practice. It wastes energy. Granted contols and a little wiring cost money too. The most damaging possibility is that the dead headed pump will churn the water until it gets so hot it exceed the pumps rating and destroys things like seals. Hot enough to boil the water and bubbles form, then they destroy the impeller too.

It depends because the larger the pump, the more likely it will occur. Smaller, low speed (low energy) pumps may have enough heat loss to overcome the heat buildup within the housing. That old massive slow speed circulator that has enough steel in it to build 3 modern day pumps will last a lot longer than a modern, computer deigned and value engineered pump.

Just ask any fireman that is trained to operate a fire engine. Major concern to keep water moving through the impeller to keep damage from occuring. A minute or two may not matter but don't sit there and churn away.

Bottom line - bad design to dead head a pump.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: Can I Run My Circulator....

PostBy: coalkirk On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:37 pm

Boots wrote:
coalkirk wrote:
Boots wrote:I have a circulator that runs 24/7 during heating season. It allows my coal boiler to keep my oil boiler up to temp. does that make me a bad person?


No that doesn't make you a bad person. If it does, I'm bad too. I have one that runs 24/7 for the same reason you do. My oil boiler and coal boiler are 40' apart. All my zones come off of the oil boiler so I want it hot all the time. The 24/7 pump, a 10 year old Grundos is pumping away from the coal boiler. I think start up is harder on a pump than constant duty. I could be FOS.
hopper dust hood.jpg


in your pic I'm assuming what Im looking at on left side of pic is coal auger . and the smaller black hose is maybe vacuum to eliminate dust?
also the indicator light on the circulator is that to let you know it is running? that is nice.


Yes and yes on the auger and vacuum hose. The light I put on all my circulators. Someone much smarter than me on the forum (don't remember who) did it and I liked it. Over at the oil boiler it makes it very easy to see what zones are active. Of course you could just feel the pipe.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal