How to hook up the Triac fan?

How to hook up the Triac fan?

PostBy: jtmalt On: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:05 pm

I'm adding a Coal-Trol to an older Alaska Kast Console II. I'm also converting the single motor to a motor with a separate combustion blower. My question? What should I do with the triac fan that blows on the motor box to keep it cool? Does that remain in series with the motor, so that it's blowing when the motor is running, or does it get wired to a straight 110v so that it's always blowing at full power?

Thanks for any help.
jtmalt
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Kast Console II

Re: How to hook up the AXIAL COOLING fan?

PostBy: jtmalt On: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:53 pm

Editing my previous post...I realized that what I'm referring to as the "triac fan" is actually the axial cooling fan. For the sake of clarity, here's the whole story:

I purchased a Coal-Trol from a stpve dealer in northeast PA. I'm intending to use it on my old Alaska Kast Konsole II. This was originally a single motor system where the combustion blower is directly attached to the carpet motor. It also has a convection blower, and an axial cooling fan that blows air onto the carpet motor housing.

All three items were hooked up to a wiring box that receives AC power from a triac reostat

The dealer sold me a complete kit that included a retrofit to remove the combustion blower from the motor, and replace it with an independently powered combustion blower.

When I rewire this, the one item I don't know what to do with is the axial fan. I imagine my choices are:

1) Wire it in with the carpet pusher motor, so that it's running whenever the motor is running.
2) Wire it straight to 110v, so that it's running full bore all the time
3) Wire it in with the convection fan, so that it's running at a variable speed along with the convection fan.
4) Remove it entirely.

I'm guessing that either 1 or 4 could result in the gearbox overheating. Any suggestions on the right way to handle it?
jtmalt
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Kast Console II

Re: How to hook up the Triac fan?

PostBy: McGiever On: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:44 am

I say #4, because, axial fan was used for the purpose of cooling due to "continuous duty" of the single motor arrangement.
Now that you will no longer have that situation with a single motor and its "continuous duty" that need is no longer needed.

Many other models of stoves have no fans cooling the gearboxes, overheated is normally not a issue for gearboxes.

However, if the stove design causes the immediate area to remain hot from adjacent stove surfaces...then wire it in "parallel" as it was originally.(not in "series") ;)
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: How to hook up the Triac fan?

PostBy: nwaelder On: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:36 pm

The axial fan mounted on the door was to cool the feeder motor and electrics within the compartment. With the Coal-trol, you do not need it.
nwaelder
 

Re: How to hook up the Triac fan?

PostBy: jtmalt On: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:51 am

Just thought I'd update this thread. I ultimately wound up keeping the axial fan, and wired it to the same power source as the combustion blower, so it runs all the time. Although it's almost certainly not needed, I figured it wouldn't hurt.

I've been running the stove on the Coal-Trol since early October, and couldn't be happier. It's been keeping the temperature within 1 degree of the setpoint very consistently, and I feel like I'm on a pace to save at least 1/2 ton over last year. Very satisfied with both the product and the customer service.
jtmalt
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Kast Console II

Re: How to hook up the Triac fan?

PostBy: Halleys5 On: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:45 am

Hey JTMalt,
Can I bother you with a follow-up question or two?
I am looking to do nearly the same thing as you.

I intended to just add a second combustion fan rather than modify my existing one, had no idea there were kits out there to make this mod. Can you give me a line on where to find such a kit, and maybe tell me why you used this rather than just adding a secondary fan?

Next, which Coal-Trol did you get? Standard+?

Finally, with the Coal-Trol, does your new combustion fan run at the same speed all the time regardless of your feeder motor?

Thanks much for your follow up post. Glad I found it before I went on my buying spree!
-Carter
Halleys5
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Reading Juanita
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing II

Re: How to hook up the Triac fan?

PostBy: jtmalt On: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:44 am

Pocono Stove in Daleville, PA has the kit...I don't know if it's something he put together on his own, or if it's available elsewhere. Basically, it's a replacement top plate for the carpet feed/combustion squirrel cage assembly, mated to a Dayton combustion fan, so it was an easy, one wing-nut replacement (I'm not sure how that setup compares to the Channing, or if he has kits to fit that as well). The Coal Trol I got was the standard unit, not the plus. His price for the whole kit was very close to what I would have spent buying the Coal Trol directly and obtaining the combustion fan from Grainger.

The combustion fan does not vary in speed, which results in a good burn even with a very slim fire. Because air is always blowing through the grate at high volume, the coal burns more efficiently, and I'm able to set the minimums at much lower temperatures than I would have thought possible. On a mild day, my surface temperature might only be around 100 - 110 degrees, with maybe 1/2 inch or less of fire on the grate. The convection fan, above the hopper, DOES vary in speed in a relationship to how hard the stove is cranking. I put an inline switch between the convection fan and the Coal Trol so that I can cut off the convection when I'm loading the hopper...helps keep from blowing coal dust around.

I'm really very satisfied...I have my thermostat set for 73, and the temp maintains very well. I programmed my setback to actually run at 75 for two hours in the wee hours. That gives the stove enough time to boost the heat and ramp back down just in time for me to get up in the morning, so the house is a little toastier without overshooting. Other than that, I never need to fiddle with the thermostat.
jtmalt
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Kast Console II

Re: How to hook up the Triac fan?

PostBy: Halleys5 On: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:31 am

Thanks for the info. I think the Channing and the Kast are basically identical in the rear.

I was looking at the little tiny (1.5"x1.5") hole through the back of the stove for feeding combustion air and wondering about cutting it open a bit more since I am adding about 50% to my combustion fan capacity. I don't find any other posts about people doing that, so I'm going to hook up my new blower as-is. 'Don't fix it if it ain't broke' right? You seem to be doing fine with just the blower upgrade as are many other people here.

I have noticed that other manufacturers have much larger combustion air intake opening. Keystoker for example looks to have about four times as much area to the opening, but on the flip side their combustion blowers look to have a restricter plate on them choking the fan down about half way. What's a guy to do....?

As an added bonus I am going to run a flexible 4" dryer vent to the new fan to feed it outside air. My stove is in the basement and has a power vent, so I like the idea of a 'closed' air system like that.

Thanks again for the info
Halleys5
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Reading Juanita
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing II

Re: How to hook up the Triac fan?

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:37 pm

Halleys5 wrote:Thanks for the info. I think the Channing and the Kast are basically identical in the rear.

I was looking at the little tiny (1.5"x1.5") hole through the back of the stove for feeding combustion air and wondering about cutting it open a bit more since I am adding about 50% to my combustion fan capacity. I don't find any other posts about people doing that, so I'm going to hook up my new blower as-is. 'Don't fix it if it ain't broke' right? You seem to be doing fine with just the blower upgrade as are many other people here.

I have noticed that other manufacturers have much larger combustion air intake opening. Keystoker for example looks to have about four times as much area to the opening, but on the flip side their combustion blowers look to have a restricter plate on them choking the fan down about half way. What's a guy to do....?

As an added bonus I am going to run a flexible 4" dryer vent to the new fan to feed it outside air. My stove is in the basement and has a power vent, so I like the idea of a 'closed' air system like that.

Thanks again for the info



The reason for the plate to restrict the combustion fan intake is to help regulate draft and pressure inside the combustion chamber.

With the use of a manometer and a barometric damper and that shuttle plate, you can get to the recommended draft for the stove.



Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: How to hook up the Triac fan?

PostBy: jtmalt On: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:07 pm

Halleys5, here's a photo of that retrofit kit installed.
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Blower kit for Kast Konsole II
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jtmalt
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Kast Console II

Re: How to hook up the Triac fan?

PostBy: Halleys5 On: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:26 pm

"I see!" said the blind man.

That blower converter makes lots of sense. I have just mounted my Dayton 1TDN7 blower so that it is blowing straight up at where the stoker motor plastic squire cage blower used to be. Also left the bent sheet metal "cage" for the old blower that was spot welded to the top of the stoker motor mounting plate.

I'm sure that the air flow efficiency will be horrible, going straight up to a 90 like I have it. I may toy with the "in-line" mount like your picture. That would require more fabrication on my part and; 1) I'm not a fabricator, and 2) I'm soooooo close to having all the other parts ready to go. It might be too much for me to make any more mods before I give it a run.

I'll post photos tomorrow. I've fashioned a hookup for my convection air so that I loop air from a lateral on my forced air system in as incoming air to the stove. Then the output from the stove convection is going into the forced air system at the plenum.

Add in the outside air for the combustion fan and the normal exhaust and there's a ton of pipe work going on back there.... starting to look like a submarine.

I am using a Power Vent with baro and mano, so I will get it all balanced in the end. For now I'm leaving my new combustion fan running wide open with his restricter plate wide open as well. Unless I start blowing coal off the grate, I'm going to call it good enough...
Halleys5
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Reading Juanita
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing II

Re: How to hook up the Triac fan?

PostBy: Halleys5 On: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:28 pm

PS thanks for the picture!
Halleys5
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Reading Juanita
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing II

Re: How to hook up the Triac fan?

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:16 pm

Halleys5 wrote:"I see!" said the blind man.....................

I am using a Power Vent with baro and mano, so I will get it all balanced in the end. For now I'm leaving my new combustion fan running wide open with his restricter plate wide open as well. Unless I start blowing coal off the grate, I'm going to call it good enough...



Be careful there Sgt. Pepper !!!!

You don't want to over pressurize that stove and possibly forcing CO into the house.

I would closely monitor that draft and power vent settings. Remember the power vent will only suck out the fumes based on where you have it set. Too much combustion air MAY force excess pressure to be pushed through the hopper. That pressure will release somewhere and the hopper is the path of least resistance.




Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: How to hook up the Triac fan?

PostBy: Halleys5 On: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:13 pm

Not much to look at yet. I have had the elbows on these two connections to make sure that they fit around each other.
Just took them off in getting ready to move the stove into position.

It's a bit of a pretzel when assembled but I'm able to connect each to their respective ducting using just one 90 each, so I'm calling it a win.
I considered building a small "buffer box" or equalization box on the incoming combustion air just to work around the convection ducting, but I figured simpler is better.

PS Rick my new combustion fan is only 50 cfm in free air so hopefully I won't be going to crazy with the increase. I've heard 40-45 is great, that will probably be what I will end up with including my air flow issues and 5' of 4" ducting to outside.

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Halleys5
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Reading Juanita
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing II

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