Leaking underground

Leaking underground

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:17 pm

Help me out here guys! When I installed my underground, the budget was only large enough to get a 300' roll of pex. When it was measured, it was going to be enough. :oops: Well,,,, after digging the trench too deep and not taking the path originally intended,,, it wasn't enough. A 50' piece cut in half and spliced onto the 150' pieces got it out of the ditch. There was a wood boiler hooked up to it first and it always was overfiring. I suspect it weakened the splices. That and there is this class action lawsuit against Zurn, the maker of the splices. Anyway over the last couple years I have been slowly losing pressure out the pex. I think the corrigated drain pipe is full of water and I am burning coal WAY beyond what has ever been used. My first year I burned 4 tons or so for the whole year, including summer DHW. This year I have burned 4 tons from the middle of Sept to now. The pex isn't holding pressure for more than a couple days.
Anyone know of a product that would help me out on this? I have been told pepper. The boiler solder looked good until the spec sheet said that it had to be exposed to air to work. Thought about the Bars leak but am worried that it will plug up all the slow moving spots in my system. Any and all ideas to fix it will be appreciated :)
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x4, 350, 700. Van Wert 400 x 2, 800, 1200.
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: Leaking underground

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:31 pm

OH No!! If you know where the splices are, I would start diggin partner!! :o
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Leaking underground

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:16 pm

Fix it the proper way now...
or fix it again when it is really cold...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove


Re: Leaking underground

PostBy: Lightning On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:36 am

Scottscoaled wrote:I think the corrigated drain pipe is full of water and I am burning coal WAY beyond what has ever been used.

I take it you have an outdoor boiler and your pex lines are in buried underground in corrugated pipe running to and from the house? Just wanna make sure I understand.. Even if you could stop the leak, how would you drain the water logged corrugated pipe thats sucking the heat out of your pex lines that are carrying heat to your house? Can you get into the corrugated pipe with another piece of something (pex, garden hose) to suck the water out of it? This seems to be a serious problem without an easy fix to me partner.. :( Actually the only fix I see is renting a ditch witch and redoing the entire run between the house and boiler...

Hopefully someone else will chime in with a better solution :sick:
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Leaking underground

PostBy: plumb-r On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:43 am

Do you have just regular pex buried or is a pex with a vapor barrier? What kind of couplings did you use a compression type or a barbed type? Does the run to the house have a slope in one direction or the other? Do you know where the couplings are? :(
plumb-r
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 608 Energy Master I Stoker

Re: Leaking underground

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:24 am

Sting has mentioned using Bar's Leaks in several posts over the years...maybe he can comment on the treatment rate.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Leaking underground

PostBy: 009to090 On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:36 am

Redo the splices again, with better splices. but you still hav to drain corrugated pipe. Suck water out with a long 1/2" hose attached to a A/C condensation pump. Block both ends of Corrugated pipe with plumbers putty once drained. This prevents it from filling up again with normal condensation.
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Leaking underground

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:51 am

I think Scott is just looking to get through the coldest weather...the real fix is to move the boiler in the house.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Leaking underground

PostBy: steamup On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:29 pm

Overtemp of the system would no doubt weaken the splices. Based on what you are describing there is no doubt a leak and your insulation is wet.

Chemical treatments and home remedies such as pepper may provide a temporay cure but work better on metal. PEX moves a lot when heated and cooled. PEX is not a material things stick to easily. I doubt chemical leak plugs will hold.

The class action suit you mention was for de-zincification. This is a problem in domestic water system where the zinc in the brass is disolved by the water and what is left is a pithy weak excuse of a brass fitting. This is more prevalent in agressive water. If this was a sealed system with little fresh oxygen, chances are the problem is not from de-zincification.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: Leaking underground

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:39 pm

Sting has mentioned using Bar's Leak


Rhizome c rap from wheat, when first invented in England was OEM for Rolls Royces until they found that dissolved air in the water also gums things up eventually. Not my favorite.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93, Jotul 507
Baseburners & Antiques: Red Cross Invader 2
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: Leaking underground

PostBy: Sting On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:14 pm

AGAIN
you say potato = I say potato

not your favorite = might be mine

it depends

but Steam up nailed it just above
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: Leaking underground

PostBy: Wiz On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:02 pm

Hopefully you remember where connections are, dig up and fixes proper. Mostly if you don't do it right now it'll cost you more down the road.
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Leaking underground

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:19 am

Stop leaks of today aren't what they used to be. 10 years ago, I filled the Grand Marquis with stop leak (Alumaseal) to fix a BAD heater core leak. About a gallon a day on the floor. That was 10 years ago this month, and it's STILL holding! And this is after a hose replacement, water pump replacement, and radiator replacement - all at different times, so 3 coolant flushes and it STILL holds. But that's stuff made in '03.

The stuff today? I tried to fix a TINY leak in the old radiator in the Blazer. Didn't last ONE WEEK, let alone 10 years. :roll:

Everything sucks nowadays. Don't even bother. Probably thanks to the EPA. :roll: Fix it the right way - it's the only way now.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Leaking underground

PostBy: RICHARD2 On: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:55 pm

Wiz wrote:Hopefully you remember where connections are, dig up and fixes proper.


Lightning wrote: If you know where the splices are, I would start diggin partner!! :o


How would you then get a watertight seal on the corrugated drain pipe the pex tubing is in?
RICHARD2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KA2

Re: Leaking underground

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:52 pm

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This is what I'm talking about. Major usage problems. :(
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x4, 350, 700. Van Wert 400 x 2, 800, 1200.
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck