Dutchwest Ash problem

Re: Dutchwest Ash problem

PostBy: dcrane On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:04 am

LDPosse wrote:
Lightning wrote:...combustion air would find the path of least resistance and bypass the grates causing the fire to starve...


Along these lines... might be worth checking out the seals on your doors. The 'ole "dollar bill test" on side side and front doors would probably be a good idea. After the first month of burning coal, I replaced the original 25 year old gasket material on the doors. In my case, the frames around the front door glass were a little warped from years of overfiring on wood, so I put in the cast iron plates.

NIGHT and DAY difference in how the stove burns. Much less primary air was needed to maintain a good burn, most of the time I ran 1/2 - 3/4 turn open. The stove also seemed to use less coal.


good stuff posse! Some of these stoves originally used some kind of padding type (not rope type) yeckie poo stuff that would fall apart (had to pretty scrape it out as opposed to pull it out), lets hope its had a gasket replacement after 30years but one never knows i guess. When i heard it worked fine for some days and then not fine on others it kinda lead me to believe drafting issue caused by baffling & design because if the cause was insufficient draft up through the coal bed (which would be bad gaskets, gaps around the firepot, etc.) he would have a hard time on ALL days i would suspect. Its always easy and smart to do these simple things when she's cool though and I think if he puts all this info together he's gonna be nice a warm! :punk:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Dutchwest Ash problem

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:09 am

All are very valid points.
99% sure the gaskets on the doors are sealing up. They were replaced last year.
Also pretty sure that there is plenty of draft. Warm days maybe not so much, but who needs a stove burning when it's 50* outside.

Keeping the air going through the bed not around it is a good point. With the larger Stove Coal I end up with gaps at the perimiter of the bed. That allows the incoming air to go around the coal. Problem is stopping that air would prove challenging due to the design of the grates etc. I'm now starting to think that nut size coal may help with this issue due to it being able to "nest" a little better.

Oh well, I'll be looking for a "new" (yea you guys have me looking everywhere for an old baseburner now) stove to make things a bit easier next year.

James,
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Dutchwest Ash problem

PostBy: LDPosse On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:24 am

Wanna Bee wrote:Oh well, I'll be looking for a "new" (yea you guys have me looking everywhere for an old baseburner now) stove to make things a bit easier next year.

James,


This site has a tendency to do that :D
LDPosse
 
Stove/Furnace Make: DS Machine, Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: DS1500, WM 400-A, 523

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Re: Dutchwest Ash problem

PostBy: dcrane On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:39 am

Wanna Bee wrote:All are very valid points.
99% sure the gaskets on the doors are sealing up. They were replaced last year.
Also pretty sure that there is plenty of draft. Warm days maybe not so much, but who needs a stove burning when it's 50* outside.

Keeping the air going through the bed not around it is a good point. With the larger Stove Coal I end up with gaps at the perimiter of the bed. That allows the incoming air to go around the coal. Problem is stopping that air would prove challenging due to the design of the grates etc. I'm now starting to think that nut size coal may help with this issue due to it being able to "nest" a little better.

Oh well, I'll be looking for a "new" (yea you guys have me looking everywhere for an old baseburner now) stove to make things a bit easier next year.

James,


The second you start burning coal in a baseburner have someone ready with a camera to take the pics of you doing cartwheels across the living room please :D
The genius of a baseburner is the efficiency they have to maintain proper coal combustion temps at the same time as giving as much thermal/radiant heat as possible into the living area.
Their are alot of variables and designs that can be argued that may sway you towards a stove like a Crane or Chubby that I wont get into in this thread but pretty much any quality coal stove that
draws its concepts in the same way will make coal burning a pleasure for you!
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Dutchwest Ash problem

PostBy: Dann757 On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:57 am

I'd do cartwheels if I could get 6 or 7 days out of a fire! I'm still trying to prevent my stove from getting ashbound but it always seems to do the same thing.
Sometimes I'll notice a relatively fresh fire almost tends itself- it seems the ash drops through the grate on its own and the weight of the coal bed helps that. But then I'll get what I call a "magma chamber", an empty spot under the black coal. This happend when the unburnad coal locks itself against the firebrick like a roman arch.
I've resorted to poking the fire only, mostly from below the grate through the ash door. If I tend to the fire frequently enough, I can keep the ash falling through the grate. But I also have a busted/brazed grate, and I modified the firebox from 9" deep x 14", to 9" deep x 10". So I can't shake the circular grate anyway.

My big fear is choking out a fire, so I think I have a tendency to let too much air into the fire. Then it gets ashbound more quickly.

The goal is to have a layer of burning coal underneath all the fresh coal; but it seems I get the fire spreading all the way through the depth of the coal bed a lot. Then the coal goes through its burning cycle and eventually seems to turn to ash all at once, which ashbinds the fire and leaves unburned coal on the top.

Makes me want to find a baseburner!
Dann757
 

Re: Dutchwest Ash problem

PostBy: Lightning On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:03 pm

Hmm... I don't understand partner. Why is it you can't shake enough ash out to keep it healthy? I've had the same fire for up to three months. I run it deep too, mound it 12 inches deep in the middle, tapers to 9 inches on the sides. And whats more, my grate system is handicapped just by its poor design. Am I missing something?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Dutchwest Ash problem

PostBy: LDPosse On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:18 pm

WB-

I am wondering now as well - how deep of a coal bed are you running? The stove should run best if you have it as full of coal as you can get it - not just level full, but heaped up, almost touching the grate that goes to the secondary burn chamber.
LDPosse
 
Stove/Furnace Make: DS Machine, Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: DS1500, WM 400-A, 523

Re: Dutchwest Ash problem

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:43 pm

I've always loaded that sombitch to the top.
It's only recently that I've given it a try with burning it down low in an attempt to get the ash out.

Like I said this is the fourth year burning coal in this stove, I have been trying all kinds of things and done much research. Thing that gets me is the gentleman that I purchased the home from burned coal in this stove as well. The coal room was full of stove size coal when I moved in.

The only thing I ever did that may or may not have affected it, is put a cap on the chimney. It's an 8x8 terracotta lined about 15' tall well over anything around it. House is the highest point on a ridge line.

James,
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Dutchwest Ash problem

PostBy: LDPosse On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:46 pm

Well it sounds like you've been doing everything right! I'm about out of ideas... Find yourself that nice baseburner! :)
LDPosse
 
Stove/Furnace Make: DS Machine, Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: DS1500, WM 400-A, 523

Re: Dutchwest Ash problem

PostBy: dcrane On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:07 pm

Dann757 wrote:I'd do cartwheels if I could get 6 or 7 days out of a fire! I'm still trying to prevent my stove from getting ashbound but it always seems to do the same thing.
Sometimes I'll notice a relatively fresh fire almost tends itself- it seems the ash drops through the grate on its own and the weight of the coal bed helps that. But then I'll get what I call a "magma chamber", an empty spot under the black coal. This happend when the unburnad coal locks itself against the firebrick like a roman arch.
I've resorted to poking the fire only, mostly from below the grate through the ash door. If I tend to the fire frequently enough, I can keep the ash falling through the grate. But I also have a busted/brazed grate, and I modified the firebox from 9" deep x 14", to 9" deep x 10". So I can't shake the circular grate anyway.

My big fear is choking out a fire, so I think I have a tendency to let too much air into the fire. Then it gets ashbound more quickly.

The goal is to have a layer of burning coal underneath all the fresh coal; but it seems I get the fire spreading all the way through the depth of the coal bed a lot. Then the coal goes through its burning cycle and eventually seems to turn to ash all at once, which ashbinds the fire and leaves unburned coal on the top.

Makes me want to find a baseburner!


wait what? were talking about another stove right (your stove?) gold marc??? bridging is pretty common on non-cylindrical coal burners and most often its a "ledge" that causes it (clean stove, check firebrick to make sure you do not have a "ledge" building mid way up the firebrick and grind or carefully chizzel out if their is). got some pics of your stove? Im not familiar with gold marc but pics can help and we can throw some ideas around (I dont think yours has anything to do with the dutchwest issue... im very familiar with dutchwest and this is a breed of its own.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Dutchwest Ash problem

PostBy: dcrane On: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:49 pm

Wanna Bee wrote:I've always loaded that sombitch to the top.
It's only recently that I've given it a try with burning it down low in an attempt to get the ash out.

Like I said this is the fourth year burning coal in this stove, I have been trying all kinds of things and done much research. Thing that gets me is the gentleman that I purchased the home from burned coal in this stove as well. The coal room was full of stove size coal when I moved in.

The only thing I ever did that may or may not have affected it, is put a cap on the chimney. It's an 8x8 terracotta lined about 15' tall well over anything around it. House is the highest point on a ridge line.

James,


As ive said stove coal is not meant for this stove, The only way i see your cap effecting anything is if your at the peak of hill (to allow for constant updraft) and your cap is HUGELY oversized for your liner... hopefully you can understand how that combination might be problematic without getting into to much? dont make yourself crazy here seriously... this has been an issue for along time with your stove so I highly doubt its you. Do the best you can with the knowledge you've learned just be understanding that this is NOT typical or the "norm" for coal burning.

Ive seen many Crane model 44's for pennies on the dollar and chubby's for nickles on the dollar and i promise you cannot go wrong with either! both will burn overnight and both will maintain continuous use all season, both were designed well for coal burning (chubby is cast iron for some pretty looks, crane is solid welded steel to last an eternity without need to refurbish for air tightness) they both draw on the baseburner concepts with secondary air channels while maintaining a proper combustion chamber temp. the radiant heat is incredible for either and though the efficiency of a base burner is undeniable, you can add a manual damper to either of these stoves to easily improve this dramatically. Im not sure how much a good baseburner cost but for $100-$200 you may wish to keep an eye out for a local crane 44 just to grab up until you get your dream stove?
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Dutchwest Ash problem

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:24 pm

Well it looks like I may have this thing licked.

Tryed a new way of shaking out my ash and It's been running for a week now with no signs of stopping. :punk:
1)Open ash door and empty pan. takes a minute or two.
2)Poke long (18") 1/2" dia rat tail file into the burning coals sweeping back and forth under them. Coal bed drops 5-6 inches
3)look in ash pan, most times it's still empty.
4)shake grates
5) look in pan, now it's almost full
6)load with coal
7)wait
8)top off with coal
9) close ash door
10) enjoy the warm house
This has been working on a 10hr/14hr schedule.


I'm away at work for 14hrs a day and haven't come close to choking out yet. I'm also getting out twice the ash now. (two ash pans daily instead of one.)
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Dutchwest Ash problem

PostBy: LDPosse On: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:00 pm

Great to hear you've got it working!! Next year you can try for the one match club! :D
LDPosse
 
Stove/Furnace Make: DS Machine, Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: DS1500, WM 400-A, 523

Re: Dutchwest Ash problem

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:29 pm

see that.... its all in the wrist :clap:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

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