Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

Re: Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

PostBy: Chiefcamper On: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:06 pm

Hope I'm not highjackin the thread, but today I was thinking about what I did to my stove last year. I cemented between all firebricks, and between the bricks and the cast parts both top and bottom. The only thing I left open was the ports for the front breather tube both top and bottom.

I think this would be enough to alter the airflow. KaptJaq, when I did this you stated that you'd never seen a petit that was cemented like that. I'm very curious if you always have flame on top, seems like everyone does. Can you share your thoughts on this????

I'm thinking about carefully getting rid of some of the cement.

Thanks Guys.

Joe
Chiefcamper
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Heat N Glo
Stove/Furnace Model: Townsend II

Re: Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

PostBy: KaptJaq On: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:35 pm

Chiefcamper wrote: I've been loading the stove lower and getting some flame, but closing the lid makes the flames dissappear.


Chiefcamper wrote:Hope I'm not highjackin the thread, but today I was thinking about what I did to my stove last year. I cemented between all firebricks, and between the bricks and the cast parts both top and bottom. The only thing I left open was the ports for the front breather tube both top and bottom.

I think this would be enough to alter the airflow. KaptJaq, when I did this you stated that you'd never seen a petit that was cemented like that. I'm very curious if you always have flame on top, seems like everyone does. Can you share your thoughts on this????

I'm thinking about carefully getting rid of some of the cement.

Thanks Guys.

Joe



I usually have the blue ladies dancing once the coal heats up enough to off-gass and until most the coals are orange. If I open the lid they are there dancing. If there is not enough air getting to the top of the coal bed then you will not see the flames and that unburnt gas will go up the flue.

Have you ever cleaned the air tube that runs from the top of the access door to the top front of the stove? Next time the stove is cold try to vacuum the bottom then the top of that tube. After you vacuum try to blow some air through the tube to see if it get out the other end.

I wouldn't try to remove the cement. An airtight stove will only require that you open the air vent a little more. Just make sure the air tube is clear.

KaptJaq
KaptJaq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin 3721 Le Grand Rond
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Nut

Re: Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

PostBy: Chiefcamper On: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:57 pm

OK
KaptJaq wrote:I usually have the blue ladies dancing once the coal heats up enough to off-gass and until most the coals are orange. If I open the lid they are there dancing. If there is not enough air getting to the top of the coal bed then you will not see the flames and that unburnt gas will go up the flue.

Have you ever cleaned the air tube that runs from the top of the access door to the top front of the stove? Next time the stove is cold try to vacuum the bottom then the top of that tube. After you vacuum try to blow some air through the tube to see if it get out the other end.

I wouldn't try to remove the cement. An airtight stove will only require that you open the air vent a little more. Just make sure the air tube is clear.

KaptJaq


Yeah and going unburnt up the flue is killin me :) What you say about the tighter stove and the draft knob makes sense. The knob has been out from 1.25 to 1.5 turns almost all season. Seems to be more than most have it set at.

When I cemented the stove I blew a match out at the bottom port and the smoke almost immedeately appeared through the top. I think it was clear back then. Next time I get it shut down I'll give it a good going over.

Thanks a Ton,

Joe
Chiefcamper
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Heat N Glo
Stove/Furnace Model: Townsend II

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Re: Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:14 pm

[/quote]

Yeah and going unburnt up the flue is killin me :) What you say about the tighter stove and the draft knob makes sense. The knob has been out from 1.25 to 1.5 turns almost all season. Seems to be more than most have it set at.

When I cemented the stove I blew a match out at the bottom port and the smoke almost immedeately appeared through the top. I think it was clear back then. Next time I get it shut down I'll give it a good going over.

Thanks a Ton,

Joe[/quote]

JOE!!!! I've been thinking about your problem... having looked at your videos on you tube, I see what looks like a plate covering the flue exit. It looks to me that it is attached
to the loading door and that it opens to about a 45 degree angle when you open the top loading door. When you close that door, the plate appears to be covering the flue!
Am I seeing an illusion? I can't quite make it out, but if there is a plate restricting the flue, all you air is going to the fire, and the secondary air channel may not be pulling
any air over the fire, thus no blue ladies, no complete burn. That restriction plate may be an add-on for burning say bituminous coal, wood, etc. I don't know, but there is
no such plate incorporated in my Large Round Godin. Your plate reminds me in a way as a kind of internal damper design to slow down the fire.

I do recall you writing that your oval is built with and assortment of components so it was difficult to determine the exact model. My guess is you remove that plate
and the blue ladies will come. Your going to get a ton more draft, so you have to dial back your air-inlet settings and certainly the MPD settings as well. I hope this helps.


Thanks,

Matt
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

PostBy: Chiefcamper On: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:01 am

Good catch Matt.

Yes there is a plate in front of the outlet. About two inches or so narrower than the port. Not attached to the door, but to the stove. Gonna have to see how it's attached. It fits directly in front of the port a one or two inches out. It runs from the top of the port to about 1/2 to 2/3 from the bottom of the port. It is on my parts list as the baffle. I can only assume the stove originally came with it. When burning wood, I still get flames up the pipe until I damp it down. I could possible try removing it.

Thanks,

Joe
Chiefcamper
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Heat N Glo
Stove/Furnace Model: Townsend II

Re: Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:34 pm

Chiefcamper wrote:Good catch Matt.

Yes there is a plate in front of the outlet. About two inches or so narrower than the port. Not attached to the door, but to the stove. Gonna have to see how it's attached. It fits directly in front of the port a one or two inches out. It runs from the top of the port to about 1/2 to 2/3 from the bottom of the port. It is on my parts list as the baffle. I can only assume the stove originally came with it. When burning wood, I still get flames up the pipe until I damp it down. I could possible try removing it.

Thanks,

Joe


Hey Joe,

A baffle is employed to check or break the force or flow of the air. My guess, you have an internal baffle frustrating the simple design of the Godin, creating an imbalance of primary to secondary air, so the volatiles are not igniting unless fresh air is introduced over the fire. I'm pretty sure the plate needs to go. Hopefully, users of the Ovals
will chime in here. Good Luck!

Matt
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:33 am

Cold temps in the Champlain Valley last night -6F and tonight will be frosty to the tune of 0 F.... I am burning nut coal at the rate of 40lbs per day. The Godin is proving to be
so reliable and so easy to maintain... it may rival the mighty Vigilant. Actually, I've been pushing the Godin hard. I'm getting an IR temp reading of about 680 F on the top lid, and depending on the burn cycle, I've measured as high as 810 F at one specific area on the left quadrant. Generally, 710-750 is nominal. When the temp hit 800F, I dial down the air-inlet to 1/3-2/3 open....

I just dialed it back to 1/3... to let her settle down a bit.... Now I just took some temp readings...

Godin Top 680F Vigilant Top 690 F

Godin Left side 800F Vigilant Left side 475F

Godin Right side 680F Vigilant Right side 500F

Godin Rear 800F Vigilant Rear 207F

Godin Front 650 F Vigilant 650 F ( plus large Glass windows which I cannot get an accurate reading.)

Roughly speaking, in very cold weather I've got the Godin kicking 22,500 BTUs per hour @ 13500 BTUs/ILB x 40= 54000/day

ON warmer days (15-25F) I'm burning 30LBs/ day or 16,875 BTUs per hour.....

These are my initial thoughts... the Vigilant will burn up to 50lbs/day. That's 67500 BTUs or 28,125 per hour....(on cold days).... the Vig is burning more coal but the Godin
appears to be kicking out more heat? My friend says I'm talking crazy if I replaced the Vig with another Large Round.

Based on what I've observed, I don't think it's a stretch to say both stoves burn equally well, that another Large Round may increase overall heat output... I just don't have the answer yet. But I'll tell you what, I'm very impressed with the Godin thus far...
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:26 pm

This morning I awoke to discover 2/3 of the coal reduced to ash. In other words the stove was severely ash-bounded. I may not have thoroughly cleaned out the ash. I checked
of the ash below the bridge and found a whole bunch of klinkers, more than I have ever seen thus far. I have not altered my burning method, so the formation of klinkers may be due to the new batch of nut I received a couple of days ago.

I threw a thin layer of pea over the remaining coal and by layers reestablished the fire. Leaving the fire door slightly ajar, the fire came back to life. Once a good bed was established, it was time to do the first clean out. Just enough ash was removed so not to disturb the fire. As the fire strengthened another round of ash was removed. One
more removal should stabilize the stove.
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

PostBy: Chiefcamper On: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:16 pm

Yes, a new batch of coal sometimes seems to alter my conditions.

For instance, I noticed the ash was noticeably darker one day when dumping the pan into my galvonized garbage pail outside. I had just cut into the 1st coal I bought this year. I still burns well, and it's from the same company, but I've been told they get their coal from several breakers and mix it. Not sure if someone would go through that much trouble, but it's possible.

I've been loading the stove a little less and the flames do appear. Especially when it's burning well. It just takes time. Even if they are small and sparse, I guess tha's OK.

Another note: I was just going over my instruction manual and it states: For The Night, Load the firebox to 2/3 full on a bed of hot embers appx 10cm high. It also states to shake it down every 8 hours til embers fall into the pan.

So Godin recommends leaving about 1/3 of the barrel empty.

Joe
Chiefcamper
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Heat N Glo
Stove/Furnace Model: Townsend II

Re: Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:29 pm

Chiefcamper wrote:Yes, a new batch of coal sometimes seems to alter my conditions.

For instance, I noticed the ash was noticeably darker one day when dumping the pan into my galvonized garbage pail outside. I had just cut into the 1st coal I bought this year. I still burns well, and it's from the same company, but I've been told they get their coal from several breakers and mix it. Not sure if someone would go through that much trouble, but it's possible.

I've been loading the stove a little less and the flames do appear. Especially when it's burning well. It just takes time. Even if they are small and sparse, I guess tha's OK.

Another note: I was just going over my instruction manual and it states: For The Night, Load the firebox to 2/3 full on a bed of hot embers appx 10cm high. It also states to shake it down every 8 hours til embers fall into the pan.

So Godin recommends leaving about 1/3 of the barrel empty.

Joe


Glad to see all is going well Joe! 10Cm is about 4". I look thru the fire door, if I don't see a red glow, I'll shake down the ash. In most cases, the ash falls nicely into the pan.
When I see bits of red coal hit the ash pan, I stop.

I have throttled back the Air-inlet to 1/3 opening. Forecast tonight is -8, so I got to keep loading the Godin more frequently, burning 45 Lbs per day easily.
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:08 pm

[quote="Chiefcamper"]Good catch Matt.

Yes there is a plate in front of the outlet. About two inches or so narrower than the port. Not attached to the door, but to the stove. Gonna have to see how it's attached. It fits directly in front of the port a one or two inches out. It runs from the top of the port to about 1/2 to 2/3 from the bottom of the port. It is on my parts list as the baffle. I can only assume the stove originally came with it. When burning wood, I still get flames up the pipe until I damp it down. I could possible try removing it.

Thanks,

Joe[/quote


Does anyone out there know why the Grand Oval Godin is outfitted with a plate just in front of the flue? What purpose does that plate serve? On my 3721 Large Round there is no such plate. Thanks in advance!
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

PostBy: KaptJaq On: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:13 am

vmi1983 wrote:
Does anyone out there know why the Grand Oval Godin is outfitted with a plate just in front of the flue? What purpose does that plate serve? On my 3721 Large Round there is no such plate. Thanks in advance!


The plate is a simple baffle. It creates a little turbulence in the over-fire air that is coming from the tube at the front of the stove. With the baffle the air gets to the left and right extremes of the oval. Without the baffle it takes the shortest path from the tube to the flue.

The shape of the round creates enough air flow at all parts of the top of the burn pot without the baffle.

KaptJaq
KaptJaq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin 3721 Le Grand Rond
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Nut

Re: Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:08 pm

KaptJaq wrote:
vmi1983 wrote:
Does anyone out there know why the Grand Oval Godin is outfitted with a plate just in front of the flue? What purpose does that plate serve? On my 3721 Large Round there is no such plate. Thanks in advance!


The plate is a simple baffle. It creates a little turbulence in the over-fire air that is coming from the tube at the front of the stove. With the baffle the air gets to the left and right extremes of the oval. Without the baffle it takes the shortest path from the tube to the flue.

The shape of the round creates enough air flow at all parts of the top of the burn pot without the baffle.

KaptJaq


Thanks KaptJap. Seriously, your contributions to NEPA are well appreciated!
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:39 am

Another Sub-Zero Night! It's already -2F and dropping. Both the Godin and the Vigilant are cranking heat but at a cost.. The Vigilant is burning 90lbs while the Godin
is at around 50lbs today.

The Godin needs frequent shakes and the rear ash needs to be dragged forward onto the grate maybe twice per day. For the most part the shaker is working very well. I'd say it crushes about 90% of the ash. The remaining stuff is either smashed to bits with the tool, or left on the grate, usually, if I leave the hard stuff on the grate until the next
cleanout, it is so weak, it smashes easily.

The draft on the chimney is excessive when the fire door is opened. I have to work quickly and keep the MPD closed...and then immediately toss a load of fresh coal to cool
the fire.

I'd like to figure a way to slow the draft w/o using a baro.

Here's the question:

I have 5" diameter standard hardware store stove pipe about 8' long from the flue connected from the Godin to 5-6" connector and then to 6" chimney double walled.

IF I SWITCH TO 6" STOVE PIPE, WILL THE LARGER DIAMETER PIPE LEADING FROM THE STOVE AND CONNECTING TO THE CHIMNEY, COULD THIS SLOW THE DRAFT SOMEWHAT? THE 5" HAS AN AREA OF 25 INCHES, THE 6" IS 36 ... THE HEAT WOULD TRAVEL UP A PIPE 44% LARGER IN DIAMETER WHICH WOULD LEAD ME TO BELIEVE
THERE WOULD BE LESS VELOCITY, RIGHT?

Thanks,

Matt
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Godin Large Round Fired UP!!

PostBy: KaptJaq On: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:50 am

vmi1983 wrote:
I have 5" diameter standard hardware store stove pipe about 8' long from the flue connected from the Godin to 5-6" connector and then to 6" chimney double walled.

IF I SWITCH TO 6" STOVE PIPE, WILL THE LARGER DIAMETER PIPE LEADING FROM THE STOVE AND CONNECTING TO THE CHIMNEY, COULD THIS SLOW THE DRAFT SOMEWHAT? THE 5" HAS AN AREA OF 25 INCHES, THE 6" IS 36 ... THE HEAT WOULD TRAVEL UP A PIPE 44% LARGER IN DIAMETER WHICH WOULD LEAD ME TO BELIEVE
THERE WOULD BE LESS VELOCITY, RIGHT?


Yes, a larger diameter pipe will slow the draft. Problem is on warmer days you draft will be slower due to the warmer temperatures. On those days you might need the draft generated by the 5" pipe to get a good burn going.

I use the MPD to control my draft. Before I open the ash door I throw a load of coal on top of the fire. The extra heat caused by the open access door helps light the new coal. The new coal absorbs a lot of the extra heat getting warmed up and started. The weight of the new coal also helps push the ash down towards the grate.

How many extremely cold days do you have? Will it be worth the problems on the warmer days that a 6" pipe might cause?

I would work with what you have first, use the damper and cold coal to control the heat. If it really doesn't work you could try a baro damper. I would only change the pipe size if I ALWAYS had too much draft.

Every install is different, you have to figure out what is best for your situation.

KaptJaq
KaptJaq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin 3721 Le Grand Rond
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Nut

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