VC 2310 to a Harman 111

VC 2310 to a Harman 111

PostBy: Storm On: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:34 pm

;) Thinking about purchasing a VC Vigilant 2310 over the Harman 111. Even thou the VC is smaller in btu's I like the cast iron over steel. We like the quiet heat that flows around. The Harman has a fan which I personally do not like. To me I do not really feel warmer with those fans on. This house is 1400 feet two floors. The stove would be centered in the home. I have knowledge about each stove. I know that the VC can run at a higher temps say 650degrees where the Harman only max 500 degrees. Would the burn time would be longer or shorter for the Harman? Fire box size, efficiency %. The cost is about the same $2000 each. Burn pea,nut. I would lean over to the VC, but not sure about the differences. Your comments are respected. George
Storm
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark 1& 111
Baseburners & Antiques: Coal Kitchen heater
Coal Size/Type: Nut & stove
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Cast. Vig. '79 w/coal

Re: VC 2310 to a Harman 111

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:44 am

Do you mean a Harman Mark III? If so, there's a huge difference in size and output.

My 2310 runs easily 12-16 hrs. It depends on the quality of coal and, of course, the outside temperature. The Vigilant II is in a roughly 29x30' room w/9' ceilings (18" fiberglass insulation). Today the stove ran for 15.5 hrs @ ~600+ before I shook and reloaded. The temperature was a mostly sunny 40 - 30* day and the house stayed in the low 70's. There was plenty of coal left in the firebox, maybe just shy of 1/2 full, and I topped it off fully with another 23 lbs after shaking down about a half a pan of ash. I'm burning UAE nut. The Vigilant II is on the first floor and is the main heat for ~ 3,100 ft^2 of 14 year old house. The oil furnace does start to run a little when it gets down into the low 20's at night. For this past week's cold spell (3 mornings at 4*) I guess I burned ~ 10-15 gallons of fuel oil with the thermostat set at 66 at night and 68 when we're home. T-stat is in the room next to the stove, about 30+ feet away. It's hard to tell how it will work for you and your conditions but it should be fine.

I have friends that run a Mark III in the basement of a house sized similar to yours and it's always toasty hot in there. Being in the basement you don't hear the fan noise. Top loading Vigilant II vs shovel load Mark III. It's a little cleaner and quicker with the top load batch burner.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: VC 2310 to a Harman 111

PostBy: Storm On: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:02 am

Thanks pea burner. Yes, I did meant Mark 111. Our family room is about the same size as yours. I now have a Mark 1 at the far side of that room near the kitchen, bath, and one bedroom. The other bedrooms are on the second floor. I have a 16x30 inch floor grate 25 feet from the stove that puts warm air upstairs . The grate is in the second floor stair landing. Now there is heat that travels upstairs, but really not enough. The temps on the first floor are fine 72 degrees on a 30 degree day. when it got finally to winter of cold temps of 5 to 25 degrees, thats when we notice the mark 1 could not keep up.the second floor 65 degrees. thats fine for me, but not others in this family.The dealer that I am working with is trying to fine a homeowner that has one working Vigilant. So far since December 1st, no luck. As with out put, the Harman Mark 111 has up to 100k btu. The VC has 50 btu's the math speaks for itself. I think I answered my own question. The Harman mark 111 would give me more heat. Rather have to much than not enough. One can throttle down but not up. As with other post, I have learned a lot. Thanks George
Storm
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark 1& 111
Baseburners & Antiques: Coal Kitchen heater
Coal Size/Type: Nut & stove
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Cast. Vig. '79 w/coal

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Re: VC 2310 to a Harman 111

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:11 am

Can't go wrong there!
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: VC 2310 to a Harman 111

PostBy: Storm On: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:40 am

I've read your post and it seems that you are guru of all Vigilants. Even though I have a Vigilant 1 w/coal conversion kit in another home that is newer say built 1926 but insulated and newer windows. This Vigilant is located in the center with all six sides radiating in all directions. Very toasty. Upstairs heated via ceiling vents. The Harman Mark 1 home is built 1885 brick. R-30 in the attic. Walls R-19, needs new windows. The plastic moves in and out as the wind blows. This spring plan to replace windows with the better technology. Old windows single pane with a wood storm window. Old technology. The Harman would be better as with earlier post. Thanks pea burner. Ps, I see other coal burners viewing our post. I hope they learn too. George
Storm
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark 1& 111
Baseburners & Antiques: Coal Kitchen heater
Coal Size/Type: Nut & stove
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Cast. Vig. '79 w/coal

Re: VC 2310 to a Harman 111

PostBy: titleist1 On: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:59 am

I can tell you the Mark III gets higher than 500* safely if you want it to! The temp measured on the top front side of mine would stay steady at 700* on the coldest snaps. That was at 2 - 21/2 turns of the draft knob.

Any reason you aren't looking at Hitzer or DS stoves? Those have thermostatic air control which the Harman doesn't.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: VC 2310 to a Harman 111

PostBy: Storm On: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:23 am

I've tried to fine a even a sample of a Hitzer, the dealers here in Wisconsin don't have them or even sold one. Would have to take a trip to Indiana. The DS stove, I am not familiar with. Who make it? Thanks. George
Storm
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark 1& 111
Baseburners & Antiques: Coal Kitchen heater
Coal Size/Type: Nut & stove
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Cast. Vig. '79 w/coal

Re: VC 2310 to a Harman 111

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:59 am

Hitzer will ship direct to you if no dealers close by...
DS Machine is made in gordonville, PA ...
I pick hitzer and DS over Harman...
The DS will go up to 130k btu...
Hitzer 100k...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: VC 2310 to a Harman 111

PostBy: titleist1 On: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:00 pm

DS Machine Stove Madness--Do You Have It ?

just one thread on the DS Machine stoves.....there are others if you search on ds machine

But be warned....it seems once you get sucked into the DS Cult there is no escape..... :D
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: VC 2310 to a Harman 111

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:57 pm

Storm wrote:;) Thinking about purchasing a VC Vigilant 2310 over the Harman 111. Even thou the VC is smaller in btu's I like the cast iron over steel. We like the quiet heat that flows around. The Harman has a fan which I personally do not like. To me I do not really feel warmer with those fans on. This house is 1400 feet two floors. The stove would be centered in the home. I have knowledge about each stove. I know that the VC can run at a higher temps say 650degrees where the Harman only max 500 degrees. Would the burn time would be longer or shorter for the Harman? Fire box size, efficiency %. The cost is about the same $2000 each. Burn pea,nut. I would lean over to the VC, but not sure about the differences. Your comments are respected. George



Hey storm,

My Vig II runs at 700 F all the day long in the frigid conditions. It can get mighty cold up here, and tonight will be -8F plus a NE wind. The Vig is a very forgiving stove and
requires 10-20 minutes of your time each day to keep her cranking. VigIIPB has been a big help to me. Also, I would never own a Hand-Fired Stove that needs electrical power,
no way, we get too many power outages up here. Good Luck, hope you get a VigII! If you have any questions, I'll be lurking...
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: VC 2310 to a Harman 111

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:58 pm

Storm wrote:;) Thinking about purchasing a VC Vigilant 2310 over the Harman 111. Even thou the VC is smaller in btu's I like the cast iron over steel. We like the quiet heat that flows around. The Harman has a fan which I personally do not like. To me I do not really feel warmer with those fans on. This house is 1400 feet two floors. The stove would be centered in the home. I have knowledge about each stove. I know that the VC can run at a higher temps say 650degrees where the Harman only max 500 degrees. Would the burn time would be longer or shorter for the Harman? Fire box size, efficiency %. The cost is about the same $2000 each. Burn pea,nut. I would lean over to the VC, but not sure about the differences. Your comments are respected. George



Hey storm,

My Vig II runs at 700 F all the day long in the frigid conditions. It can get mighty cold up here, and tonight will be -8F plus a NE wind. The Vig is a very forgiving stove and
requires 10-20 minutes of your time each day to keep her cranking. VigIIPB has been a big help to me. Also, I would never own a Hand-Fired Stove that needs electrical power,
no way, we get too many power outages up here. Good Luck, hope you get a VigII! If you have any questions, I'll be lurking...
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: VC 2310 to a Harman 111

PostBy: oliver power On: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:00 am

I can say a couple things about the older vililant I use to have; 1.) They are nice looking stoves. 2.) They radiate heat accross the room like no other stove I've ever had/been around. As far as heating my home with the vigilant II, I'd have to go see one in action. Or, at least go look at one in person. And the ONLY reason I'd even consider is because of VigIIpeaburners great experience with his. I've read it's a whole new design from the older vigilant I had. Oliver
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: VC 2310 to a Harman 111

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:24 am

It is a 50,000 btu/hr stove and does radiate some serious heat from the big double door windows and the side/back exhaust path. It will cruise along at 700* all day long. With its deep firebed made easy with the top loading design, I easily run 14 hours on a load of UAE. What it's not is a 90,000 btu/hr stove like the Mark III. Putting these two to a head to head comparison isn't a fair comparison. Comparing the Vigiant II 2310 (50K btu/hr) to the Mark I (48K btu/hr) is another story and even that might not be fair ... form the Mark I :D (and thanks guys for the positive comments :) )
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: VC 2310 to a Harman 111

PostBy: Storm On: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:54 pm

Storm here, I am not a metallurgist but what radiates more 1/4 inch steel or 1/4 inch cast iron? For now let's forget btu's . George
Storm
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark 1& 111
Baseburners & Antiques: Coal Kitchen heater
Coal Size/Type: Nut & stove
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Cast. Vig. '79 w/coal

Re: VC 2310 to a Harman 111

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:13 pm

I think the shape of the surface has a lot to do with how much heat radiates off of somthing. Most/all stoves made of plate have flat sides, but most older cast stoves and all vermont castings cast iron stoves have a lot of panels on them which gives them a lot more surface to radiate heat.
carlherrnstein
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: combustioneer model 77B
Coal Size/Type: pea stoker/Ohio bituminous

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