Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: McGiever On: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:32 pm

rychw wrote:I had another big explosion last night so I reduced the grate motor speed to 30%. I hope that the slower speed will prevent too much coal being added to the tube too fast. If I continue to have explosions, I'm going to install the timer system that Yanche has been using. Again, I feel that the thermo ash system is flawed as installed and programmed. The ash temperature is far less important than the tube temperature and the timing and method of adding coal is flawed. There should be a method of removing the coal gas before it ignites. Just some thoughts.


*rychw*,
What does the ashing motor's nameplate state for your motor rpm?

Other Owners of Coal Guns,
What does the ashing motor's nameplate state for other's motor rpm?
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:49 am

McGiever wrote:I came across the info on the Percentage Timers I believe that are used on the AHS Coal Guns and thought I'd share. :)

Paragon Timer.pdf
JW Series.pdf


I don't believe these are currently available.

The Intermatic 8815 seems to be the only remaining 10 minute repeat cycle timer that is both available and capable of handling the load. The Tork EJWT that I purchased will not work, since it resets and begins counting time all over again each time the current to it is dropped. What is needed is a timer that does not reset if/when the current is dropped to it (as would happen each time the fan shuts off).
Last edited by lsayre on Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:15 am

Is there no factory option for ashing but the Dywer/Love controller presently?
Last edited by McGiever on Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:28 am, edited 5 times in total.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:18 am

McGiever wrote:Is there no factory option for ashing but the Dywer/Love controller presently?


I believe that to be accurate. All Coal Guns are Thermo Ash Monitoring models now to my knowledge.
Last edited by lsayre on Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: blrman07 On: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:21 am

rychw wrote:... The ash temperature is far less important than the tube temperature and the timing and method of adding coal is flawed. There should be a method of removing the coal gas before it ignites. Just some thoughts.


Finally someone is on the road to clarity with this. I am not an engineer but it seems to me that trying to control your coal feed by ash temperature is equal to repeatedly hitting your head against a wall and then wondering why the wall doesn't move. :bang: :bang: :bang:
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, reblacking a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:32 am

lsayre wrote:
McGiever wrote:I came across the info on the Percentage Timers I believe that are used on the AHS Coal Guns and thought I'd share. :)

Paragon Timer.pdf
JW Series.pdf


I don't believe these are currently available.

The Intermatic 8815 seems to be the only remaining 10 minute repeat cycle timer that is both available and capable of handling the load. The Tork EJWT that I purchased will not work, since it resets and begins counting time all over again each time the current to it is dropped. What is needed is a timer that does not reset if/when the current is dropped to it (as would happen each time the fan shuts off).


As far as using an after market controller and the issue of load, any controller (even a timer based one) could be made to work, even if that controller could not handle the ashing motor's amperage, by controlling a relay that would handle the higher amperage. Actually using a relay is exactly what the Coal Gun with the Love unit does already. :)
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:39 am

I believe that the Coal Gun incorporates a very pricey "Safety Relay", not just an ordinary off the shelf relay. As I recall, this is to prevent the contacts from burning and fusing on the aquastats when the fan kicks on. If the current to the fan motor is dictating when it should ash via a timer (or via ash temperature), then everything is related to the load of the 1/2 HP fan motor, not the 1/25 HP ashing motor.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:45 am

lsayre wrote:I believe that the Coal Gun incorporates a very pricey "Safety Relay", not just an ordinary off the shelf relay. As I recall, this is to prevent the contacts from burning and fusing on the aquastats when the fan kicks on. If the current to the fan motor is dictating when it should ash via a timer (or via ash temperature), then everything is related to the load of the 1/2 HP fan motor, not the 1/25 HP ashing motor.


Okay, but still is a non-issue, just use that "Safety Relay", and have the new/replacement controller control that "Safety Relay". :)

I don't have a "Safety Relay" on my Axeman...it's seems to be fine. ;)

Edit to add:
I just revisted wiring diagram, relay is Solid State Relay, which is compatible w/ the Love control's DC voltage output. They are matched to be compatible.
I still believe an off the shelf relay would work w/ another controller...nothing special required.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: rychw On: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:56 pm

*rychw*,
What does the ashing motor's nameplate state for your motor rpm?

My motor builders plate says 2 RPM so I have effectively reduced the speed by 70% or .6 revolutions per minute.
rychw
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: 130

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: KLook On: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:15 am

I am not an engineer but it seems to me that trying to control your coal feed by ash temperature is equal to repeatedly hitting your head against a wall and then wondering why the wall doesn't move. :bang: :bang: :bang:


I was scolded by the master, Sting, once for suggesting controlling the stoker motor of my VF3000 by return water temp in an attempt to get it to react quicker to cold water flowing to it. The sensors are on the top and it was to late once it came on. I solved mine with constant flow loop back to return side and electronic controls on certain zones that sap the the water completely. I am a big fan of gadgets and sensors and controls, but they clearly are not working outside of the AHS lab in this case.
AHS is not going to come in and approve a type of solution that requires ditching the system you bought and installing a homeowner built timer/relay one in its place. Until a lawsuit is filed over the present approved system, they have no liability and are not going to assume any by approving an alternate system built by Joe Shmoe, the homeowner or other clever guy. Document the damage and file as a group. It is the only way to make a corporation respond.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: Dennis On: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:37 am

KLook wrote:AHS is not going to come in and approve a type of solution that requires ditching the system you bought and installing a homeowner built timer/relay one in its place. Until a lawsuit is filed over the present approved system, they have no liability and are not going to assume any by approving an alternate system built by Joe Shmoe, the homeowner or other clever guy. Document the damage and file as a group. It is the only way to make a corporation respond.

I certinly hope it dosen't come down to this action.I'm also certin AHS is working on this problem and trying to find a solution.I'm also certin if AHS admits to the problem,then there liaible for damage and once they do find a solution they will make good on it. AHS is a great company and will resolve this problem. JUST MY OPINION
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: KLook On: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:26 pm

I certainly hope it doesn't come down to this action.I'm also certain AHS is working on this problem and trying to find a solution.I'm also certain if AHS admits to the problem,then there liable for damage and once they do find a solution they will make good on it. AHS is a great company and will resolve this problem. JUST MY OPINION


I just hope one of you isn't the damage they become liable for at some point when the barometric or other piece takes someone in the head. Some things take time to fix, but selling a bomb for your basement is risky for a business. It would seem that Yanche has it solved anyways. Twice. ;) \

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: macdabs On: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:54 am

I just got done making sure my S-260 is ready for this years heating season . I ended up replacing some of my double wall stainless chimney after noticing the seam was splitting on the first 4 ft section from the puff-backs from last year. I also had to replace the cap it was all bent out of shape also. :sick: :sick: I lost two Rc Baro dampers , 4ft double wall pipe, chimney cap and one t- single wall cap in the two heating seasons so far. I got to admit I am a little nervous on this years heating season and was curious if I am the only one with the same concerns . The fact the company is changing hands again makes me a little nervous also.

Mac
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: EarthWindandFire On: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:25 pm

The company is reverting back to previous owners. In fact, this is a good thing.
EarthWindandFire
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 75.
Other Heating: Oil and Natural Gas.

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: greenftechn On: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:31 pm

I want to apologize to folks who have been looking for answers on the puff back issue and have not been seeing company rep participation in the forum. First, regarding the ownership issue mentioned by the previous poster, I want to let you know that the company has come back to Jeff and Phyllis Gingerich, who stewarded the company during the best ten years of its existence, in my opinion.

Regarding puff backs, proper draft is the key. As long as we are maintaining the minimum .04 in, we will be removing volatiles from the top of the coal pot that are the source of the puff backs and explosions. A number of factors can interfere with attaining this minimum. The chimney may be cold, of insufficient height or in a poor location. Reduced duty cycles in the early and late parts of the heating season can lead to cold flues. If proper draft cannot be maintained, a draft inducer (power vent) should be installed. If the power vent is the main source of draft, apart from having natural draft, back up power must be in place.
greenftechn
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Coal Gun S130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska Kodiak
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Wood Gun
Stove/Furnace Make: Alternate Heating Systems
Stove/Furnace Model: E100