Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

It is my understanding that all of the newer AHS Coal Guns (or at least the UL Listed ones) will only ash when the blower motor is running. Mine was made in October of 2009, and it is made that way. It only ashes when the blower (fan) is running, and when the ash grate temperature hits 95 degrees (shutting off ashing at 100 degrees).

Last year with Blaschak coal I initiated ashing at 120 degrees, with ashing shutting off at 130 degrees.

I had another big explosion last night so I reduced the grate motor speed to 30%. I hope that the slower speed will prevent too much coal being added to the tube too fast. If I continue to have explosions, I'm going to install the timer system that Yanche has been using. Again, I feel that the thermo ash system is flawed as installed and programmed. The ash temperature is far less important than the tube temperature and the timing and method of adding coal is flawed. There should be a method of removing the coal gas before it ignites. Just some thoughts.

I came across the info on the Percentage Timers I believe that are used on the AHS Coal Guns and thought I'd share.

rychw wrote:I had another big explosion last night so I reduced the grate motor speed to 30%. I hope that the slower speed will prevent too much coal being added to the tube too fast. If I continue to have explosions, I'm going to install the timer system that Yanche has been using. Again, I feel that the thermo ash system is flawed as installed and programmed. The ash temperature is far less important than the tube temperature and the timing and method of adding coal is flawed. There should be a method of removing the coal gas before it ignites. Just some thoughts.

*rychw*,
What does the ashing motor's nameplate state for your motor rpm?

Other Owners of Coal Guns,
What does the ashing motor's nameplate state for other's motor rpm?

McGiever wrote:I came across the info on the Percentage Timers I believe that are used on the AHS Coal Guns and thought I'd share.

Paragon Timer.pdf

JW Series.pdf

I don't believe these are currently available.

The Intermatic 8815 seems to be the only remaining 10 minute repeat cycle timer that is both available and capable of handling the load. The Tork EJWT that I purchased will not work, since it resets and begins counting time all over again each time the current to it is dropped. What is needed is a timer that does not reset if/when the current is dropped to it (as would happen each time the fan shuts off).

Is there no factory option for ashing but the Dywer/Love controller presently?

McGiever wrote:Is there no factory option for ashing but the Dywer/Love controller presently?

I believe that to be accurate. All Coal Guns are Thermo Ash Monitoring models now to my knowledge.

rychw wrote:... The ash temperature is far less important than the tube temperature and the timing and method of adding coal is flawed. There should be a method of removing the coal gas before it ignites. Just some thoughts.

Finally someone is on the road to clarity with this. I am not an engineer but it seems to me that trying to control your coal feed by ash temperature is equal to repeatedly hitting your head against a wall and then wondering why the wall doesn't move.

lsayre wrote:

McGiever wrote:I came across the info on the Percentage Timers I believe that are used on the AHS Coal Guns and thought I'd share.

Paragon Timer.pdf

JW Series.pdf

I don't believe these are currently available.

The Intermatic 8815 seems to be the only remaining 10 minute repeat cycle timer that is both available and capable of handling the load. The Tork EJWT that I purchased will not work, since it resets and begins counting time all over again each time the current to it is dropped. What is needed is a timer that does not reset if/when the current is dropped to it (as would happen each time the fan shuts off).

As far as using an after market controller and the issue of load, any controller (even a timer based one) could be made to work, even if that controller could not handle the ashing motor's amperage, by controlling a relay that would handle the higher amperage. Actually using a relay is exactly what the Coal Gun with the Love unit does already.

I believe that the Coal Gun incorporates a very pricey "Safety Relay", not just an ordinary off the shelf relay. As I recall, this is to prevent the contacts from burning and fusing on the aquastats when the fan kicks on. If the current to the fan motor is dictating when it should ash via a timer (or via ash temperature), then everything is related to the load of the 1/2 HP fan motor, not the 1/25 HP ashing motor.

lsayre wrote:I believe that the Coal Gun incorporates a very pricey "Safety Relay", not just an ordinary off the shelf relay. As I recall, this is to prevent the contacts from burning and fusing on the aquastats when the fan kicks on. If the current to the fan motor is dictating when it should ash via a timer (or via ash temperature), then everything is related to the load of the 1/2 HP fan motor, not the 1/25 HP ashing motor.

Okay, but still is a non-issue, just use that "Safety Relay", and have the new/replacement controller control that "Safety Relay".

I don't have a "Safety Relay" on my Axeman...it's seems to be fine.

Edit to add:
I just revisted wiring diagram, relay is Solid State Relay, which is compatible w/ the Love control's DC voltage output. They are matched to be compatible.
I still believe an off the shelf relay would work w/ another controller...nothing special required.

*rychw*,
What does the ashing motor's nameplate state for your motor rpm?

My motor builders plate says 2 RPM so I have effectively reduced the speed by 70% or .6 revolutions per minute.

I am not an engineer but it seems to me that trying to control your coal feed by ash temperature is equal to repeatedly hitting your head against a wall and then wondering why the wall doesn't move.

I was scolded by the master, Sting, once for suggesting controlling the stoker motor of my VF3000 by return water temp in an attempt to get it to react quicker to cold water flowing to it. The sensors are on the top and it was to late once it came on. I solved mine with constant flow loop back to return side and electronic controls on certain zones that sap the the water completely. I am a big fan of gadgets and sensors and controls, but they clearly are not working outside of the AHS lab in this case.
AHS is not going to come in and approve a type of solution that requires ditching the system you bought and installing a homeowner built timer/relay one in its place. Until a lawsuit is filed over the present approved system, they have no liability and are not going to assume any by approving an alternate system built by Joe Shmoe, the homeowner or other clever guy. Document the damage and file as a group. It is the only way to make a corporation respond.

Kevin

KLook wrote:AHS is not going to come in and approve a type of solution that requires ditching the system you bought and installing a homeowner built timer/relay one in its place. Until a lawsuit is filed over the present approved system, they have no liability and are not going to assume any by approving an alternate system built by Joe Shmoe, the homeowner or other clever guy. Document the damage and file as a group. It is the only way to make a corporation respond.

I certinly hope it dosen't come down to this action.I'm also certin AHS is working on this problem and trying to find a solution.I'm also certin if AHS admits to the problem,then there liaible for damage and once they do find a solution they will make good on it. AHS is a great company and will resolve this problem. JUST MY OPINION

I certainly hope it doesn't come down to this action.I'm also certain AHS is working on this problem and trying to find a solution.I'm also certain if AHS admits to the problem,then there liable for damage and once they do find a solution they will make good on it. AHS is a great company and will resolve this problem. JUST MY OPINION

I just hope one of you isn't the damage they become liable for at some point when the barometric or other piece takes someone in the head. Some things take time to fix, but selling a bomb for your basement is risky for a business. It would seem that Yanche has it solved anyways. Twice. \

Kevin