Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

PostBy: Canaan coal man On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:51 pm

Ok, Iv been brain storming the smartest way to heat my house. when i bought my house back in feb '12 it was only heated by oil both radiator and DHW, I knew that that wasnt going to work. so with the help of this forum and a few co workers that use it, i dicided to burn coal as an extra heat source. I use a channing 3 on the first floor of an older cape style house. So far so good. Iv estimated ill burn about 4.25 tons befor spring, Iv bought 4 pallets at 2500# for a total of $1500. alot better than oil :D . I have one zone that I leave at 50* but never kicks on thanks to the stove. the other zone is for my DHW. My big problem is I still have to buy oil for my DHW :mad:. Its looking like ill spend around $1600 on oil this year, or a total of roughly $3100 to heat the house. CAN I DO THIS ANY SMARTER? Iv read alot on hear about the coal trolls and probly going to get one this year to help out with the coal consumption.

Iv thought about ether putting in an elecric hot water heater, or a Hot water coil in my stove to aid with the DHW.
Im not sure wait would be better?
If i use a HW coil ill still be useing oil but not as much.
If i go with EHW My oil bill will almost be none exsistent but my electric will jump to 50-60$ a month or 750-800 a year.

Any body have better ideas I could go with?
Canaan coal man
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III Top Vent

Re: Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:55 pm

Use a coal-fired boiler to heat your house using the radiators and to make your DHW.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

PostBy: Canaan coal man On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:09 pm

I know they are probly the way to go but there is a large upfront cost. :(
Canaan coal man
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III Top Vent


Re: Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:12 pm

You would probably break even with an electric hot water tank.

Hot Water Coil Project
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

PostBy: BrotherDave On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:24 pm

As a former oil burner, you are correct in the upfront costs being high. Two years ago I bought and installed my VF3000 for around six grand. The savings in using coal all year round, not once has oil been used since June 1, 2011, I have saved over eight grand. Burning coal has paid for itself in about a year and a half. At this point I am saving money burning coal. With oil prices only going up or stabilizing at 4 bucks a gallon, a coal boiler is a highly economical alternative to an oil boiler in the longer term, short term no it's not but the break even point should be less than two years.
BrotherDave
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin 3727 / King KCC205
Stove/Furnace Make: King/Godin/Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: KCC205/3727/VF3000

Re: Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

PostBy: Canaan coal man On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:39 pm

Lightning wrote:You would probably break even with an electric hot water tank.

Hot Water Coil Project


Nice thread for the HW coil. Wait do u mean Ill break even with the EHW?
Canaan coal man
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III Top Vent

Re: Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

PostBy: Canaan coal man On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:43 pm

Im wondering if I go with a HW coil should I plumb it just for DHW, or use it for the whole house?
Canaan coal man
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III Top Vent

Re: Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:52 pm

I'll defer to anyone who has done this, but I would expect that you'd never achieve enough heat transfer to the coil to put meaningful btu's into the house. A boiler typically uses 20-30+ sf of heat exchange area; a coil in a stove provides nowhere near that. Even for DHW, a coil in a stove would produce very limited output.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:29 pm

Pacowy wrote:Use a coal-fired boiler to heat your house using the radiators and to make your DHW.

Mike


what he sayed^^^
Oil is simply HORRIBLE...HORRIBLY HORRIBAL! If you dont go that route i would just get a elec. H/W tank and try to get some tax credits or refunds back to pay for it. If oil remains near the prices currently (which its expected to) you will save with elec. to some degree.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

PostBy: LDPosse On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:35 pm

Depending on how much DHW you need, I would take a look at a heat pump (hybrid) water heater. I've had mine for about a year and a half, it has cut my electric usage significantly compared to a standard EHW. My winter electric bill used to run $70-$80 per month. With the new HWH, my winter electric bill runs about $40/month. Placing the HWH near a heat source, like your stove, will make it even more efficient. Another plus, at least with the GE unit, is that it's made in the USA.

The only downside is the tank, which is only 50 gallons, but there is supposed to be an 80 gallon model coming soon.
LDPosse
 
Stove/Furnace Make: DS Machine, Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: DS1500, Heatrola

Re: Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:42 pm

Canaan coal man wrote:Nice thread for the HW coil. Wait do u mean Ill break even with the EHW?


Thanks :D Electric and oil are both pricey and you would only save money on electric while you are burning coal for half the year with a set up like mine. I'm saving roughly $100 a month for 6 months by preheating DHW and keeping my outdoor hot tub warm. $600 savings gets me 3 tons of coal :lol: .... As mentioned, a coil could never effectively heat a house BUT it does effectively preheat a temper tank so the primary DHW tank doesn't have to do any work to heat the water. My temper tank is usually around 140 degrees after 8-10 hours of no hot water use, like while we're gone at work and kids are at school, or over night..
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

PostBy: steamup On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:40 pm

I went with propane for DHW which is a little more stable than oil in my area. I am not a fan of oil hot wate heaters. However, you only cut your oil in half with the coal stove. You should be able to cut you oil down to 150 gallon/ year +/- if you went with a coal boiler in parallel with your oil boiler. Even less if you heat your hot water with your coal boiler in the winter. Big investiment but if you cut another $600-800 a year off your heating costs, there is a payback possible.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

PostBy: SMITTY On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:47 pm

Me? I'd steer clear of electric & propane for DHW. Both cost WAY too much up here in the northeast. Other places, that would be a good plan - but not here.

Cheapest possible route is to just burn coal in a boiler all year long. IF you don't want to do that, then electric would be the easiest to install. Don't know whether propane or electric would be cheaper - they are both astronomically expensive for heating anything up here.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

PostBy: coalkirk On: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:46 pm

Canaan coal man wrote:I know they are probly the way to go but there is a large upfront cost. :(


DUH! Pay now or pay later, and lots more. Yes there is an initial cost to install a boiler but the pay pack is quick and for real.
My boioer paid for itself in 3 years. Everything after that is gravy. In 10 years my coal boiler has saved me about $20,000.00. That is real dollars.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Need Your input. How to get through the winters smarter.

PostBy: Canaan coal man On: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:35 am

LDPosse wrote:Depending on how much DHW you need, I would take a look at a heat pump (hybrid) water heater. I've had mine for about a year and a half, it has cut my electric usage significantly compared to a standard EHW. My winter electric bill used to run $70-$80 per month. With the new HWH, my winter electric bill runs about $40/month. Placing the HWH near a heat source, like your stove, will make it even more efficient. Another plus, at least with the GE unit, is that it's made in the USA.

The only downside is the tank, which is only 50 gallons, but there is supposed to be an 80 gallon model coming soon.


Iv never heard of the heat pumps till u said something. I did some research and youtubeing on them and wow Im heavlly leaning towrd one. It would pay for itself in less than a year with all the rebates
Canaan coal man
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III Top Vent