Boiler & Outdoor Reset?

Boiler & Outdoor Reset?

PostBy: Kungur On: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:05 am

I would like to explore the idea of an Outdoor Reset Control for my boiler. I have a KAA-2 and I am set-up with radiant floor heat. I have a Tekmar 3 way mixing valve to "temper" the water. I have heard that it is possible to adjust the water temp based on outdoor temp. So as we get the warmer Spring days the water temp going out to the loops would be adjusted down and just the opposite as the temps outdoors go down.
Anyone here have any experience with these? I have looked at Pex Supply and the Tekmar site and know I need an acuating motor for the 3 way valve. It is the controller that I am having a challenge understanding what I need.
Your help is as alway appreciated!
Kungur
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: K-2

Re: Boiler & Outdoor Reset?

PostBy: McGiever On: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:30 pm

http://tekmarcontrols.com/images/_liter ... 0_a_06.pdf

This document shows 6 different configurations for different piping arrangements and whether using Indirect water heater or not.
Some configurations use the 2 way, 3 way or 4 way mixing valves for these 24 volt floating action valves.
Lowering the boilers water temperature will effect the DHW output w/ a tankless coil, where as w/ an indirect DHW it will only take more time to recover.
With primary/secondary piping w/ normal boiler temps would not effect the DHW output.

There is yet another system which varies the speed of the injection pump with an injection controller instead of the mixing valves. (Tekmar 365)

Your specific piping arrangement will dictate what is most feasible. :)

If your answers you get here fall short, the folks at Pex Supply can get you on the right track.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Boiler & Outdoor Reset?

PostBy: Kungur On: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:20 am

Would like to clarify my idea. I do not want to lower the boiler temp, only the temp of the water going out to the loops. I can do this now,manually, with the 3 way mixing valve. Just would like to have it "automated".
Kungur
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: K-2


Re: Boiler & Outdoor Reset?

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:36 pm

I understood...but clarity helps. :)

Should of said...
With primary/secondary piping you get normal boiler temps and this does not effect the DHW output.

McGiever wrote:Your specific piping arrangement will dictate what is most feasible. :)

If your answers you get here fall short, the folks at Pex Supply can get you on the right track.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Boiler & Outdoor Reset?

PostBy: steamup On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:54 am

Look at the Tekmar 360. it should do as you wish.

Hang onto your wallet. These are not cheap, nor are the actuators for the valve. Make sure the valve actuator input is compatable with the controller output.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: Boiler & Outdoor Reset?

PostBy: McGiever On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:36 am

Here is a 3 way valve that requires. no separate controller and operates w/ outdoor reset which is built into valve. :D
This will only control one zone...meaning one thermostat.

Taco I075C3R-1 Outdoor Reset I-Series Mixing Valve w/ Sensor, 3/4" Sweat, 3 Way

Here is an excellent read on Mixing, outdoor resets and much more:

http://www.caleffi.us/en_US/caleffi/Det ... s_7_us.pdf
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Boiler & Outdoor Reset?

PostBy: Kungur On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:20 pm

After looking at the Tekmar prices I think I need to re-consider. I am up to over $700. I know that I would have a bit of trouble recooping this cost. I think I may have to just stay with doing it manually.
Kungur
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: K-2

Re: Boiler & Outdoor Reset?

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:02 pm

I just looked on E-bay. There is a 360 Tekmar valve controller for $150. A 1" 3 way valve for $100. The sensors are $25-30 apiece all the time. I use a Tekmar controller to run my boiler.
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x3, 700 Van Wert 800
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: Boiler & Outdoor Reset?

PostBy: McGiever On: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:21 pm

Kungur wrote:After looking at the Tekmar prices I think I need to re-consider. I am up to over $700. I know that I would have a bit of trouble recooping this cost. I think I may have to just stay with doing it manually.


If you are opting out of the reset and auto mixing, then you might consider replacing the 3-way for a thermostatic mixing valve for some better control of temperatures.

Have you looked at the Tekmar 356 Injection Pump Controller's cost compared to the Tekmar 360 Mixing Valve Controller?
The Injection Pump Controller would vary the speed of a standard wet rotor circ. pump motor that is plumbed into the system properly for injection...pretty much the same theory as 3-way valve, but doing it w/ a pump. Another advantage is the injection pump will cover multiple zones. Oh, and it has the Outdoor Reset too. :)

http://tekmarcontrols.com/products/hvac ... s/356.html
Last edited by McGiever on Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Boiler & Outdoor Reset?

PostBy: Kungur On: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:47 am

McGiever this is an intersting idea! I will have to look at the pump and check it out. Although I have 3 zones all with pumps there is only one zone that ,our main living areas that I really need to control.
Kungur
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: K-2

Re: Boiler & Outdoor Reset?

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:05 am

That is a pretty interesting way to do it until you factor in the cost of the Variable speed pump and/or the VSD that the controller would operate. Don't they make a 24volt actuator for your 3-way valve?
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x3, 700 Van Wert 800
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: Boiler & Outdoor Reset?

PostBy: McGiever On: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:21 pm

Kungur wrote:McGiever this is an intersting idea! I will have to look at the pump and check it out. Although I have 3 zones all with pumps there is only one zone that ,our main living areas that I really need to control.



Scottscoaled wrote:That is a pretty interesting way to do it until you factor in the cost of the Variable speed pump and/or the VSD that the controller would operate. Don't they make a 24volt actuator for your 3-way valve?


Injection Pump Mixing is all done w/ the Tekmar 356 using an ordinary wet rotor circulator pump, which we all already use. I see 356 Tekmar Units going for $260.00 brand new and new wet rotor pumps for $87.00. Brand new Tekmar 356 include the 3 sensors needed.

So, for like $350.00 you have your parts. That's half the money of what was said earlier. :D

One needs to factor in how much piping changes would be needed for Injection Pump Mixing vs Mixing Valve application.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek


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