Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

Re: Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Thu May 09, 2013 9:47 pm

wsherrick wrote:You are going to have to get a new fire pot cast for the stove. Pack up the original and send it to Tomahawk Foundry. They will cast a perfect copy from the original.


Have you ever used them William? I'm curious what kind of turn around they have.

There is a foundry near me that deals with re-popping stove parts. I'm going to give them the first shot. That way I can go inside and pick up my old one if need be. Tomahawk is to far away for me to drop by for a friendly visit.

Hope to have one made ASAP for reassembly. BTW if the fire pot was 1/4" shorter It would fit through the front door.
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

PostBy: wsherrick On: Thu May 09, 2013 9:54 pm

Tomahawk is the best in the business, hence my recommendation of them. They are the premier stove part reproduction foundry in the Nation, most of the pros use them exclusively. They are competent, friendly and are reasonably priced.
If you have someone in your area that you trust, then; use them by all means. Make sure you use the copy and keep the original as a master just in case. You can line the fire pot if you want, but; and unlined one brand new and not abused has an average life of 15 years or so of constant use. If you choose to line it then use the method that Nortcan and I thought up. Get a steel ring that fits in the fire pot, JUST ABOVE the teeth in the bottom. This ring will act as a firm base to hold the liner. You don't want to block the teeth at the bottom. They are crucial to the functioning of the stove. They allow a rather thick layer of ash on the grates and still allow for an even supply of air all around the fire bed.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Fri May 10, 2013 10:38 am

Spoke with the gentlemen at Tomahawk today, did a little brain picking.
My initial iquiry was if it could be heated and pushed back into shape. Short answer = NO

Turns out because my FP is not in very good shape (badly warped) I will most likley be creating my own FP pattern for casting. The guy I spoke with told me that if I send it to them they can pop a new one from it but it will resemble the old one exactly. Because the fingers are bent outward, and the bottom isn't round anymore due to warping I will not be going that route.
I figure I can make a pattern any shape I want, even shorten it 1/4" to be able to get it throughthe front door of the stove. I'm even kinda looking forward to making it.
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

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Re: Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Sat May 11, 2013 11:22 am

Well how detailed do you want me to be on this build?

Disclaimer... I am a carpenter by trade, I also have a very large back ground in metal working/machining, all disciplines of welding including some certifications. I am not a stove restoration expert by any means. I will make mistakes, and some of the information that I post will be incorrect. I'm human. :D

I did a whole bunch of research on the different acids available for treating rusty cast iron.

Turns out Muriatic acid is the gift that keeps on giving. Once applied to CI it gets into the pores and continues to react with the base material unless completely neutralized. I'm not looking forward to destroying a 100 year old stove just to save myself some work.

Phosphoric acid on the other hand when applied to rusty CI turns the iron oxide into ferric phosphate. Ferric Phosphate has a black appearance and mild corrosion resistance. Plus it looks very nice when done. Most drywall screws are sold as phosphate coated so you get an idea of what the interior finishes will look like once treated.

Because a lot of the stove is interior passages and non serviceable, I'd prefer not to paint them. Stove polish is only going to be applied to the exterior of the stove so a corrosion resistant coating on the rest will be beneficial.

I also decided that Electrolysis is how major rust removal will be accomplished. I only have minimal parts that need rust to be removed with this method. The rear CI 90 on the back of the stove is pretty bad looking but still structurally sound.

If this is more than you'd like to know tell me. I can tone it down a bit and just post pictures.
Thing is, that while I complete projects like this you guys will appreciate it, plus if start going the wrong direction steer me strait.
My wife just says "that's nice honey"
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

PostBy: franco b On: Sat May 11, 2013 2:26 pm

Wanna Bee wrote:If this is more than you'd like to know tell me. I can tone it down a bit and just post pictures.

This is just fine. Please, the more details of what you do and learn the better. Very curious as to how you will make the fire pot pattern.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat May 11, 2013 3:45 pm

Good news on the phosphoric acid, I know I can buy Muriatic acid at any hardware or pool store,, I've never looked for phosphoric acid, is it readily available??

Yes with the Muriatic acid washing with baking soda solution unitll it stops reacting is important,, Grumpy pointed htis aour ion the last page...

Details are good, we ALL learn from them.. this is the beauty of the internet and forums.. you can share a bit at a time and in the end have posted a 'novel' on HOW-TO a particular job..

Thanks for the research on the acids.. good stuff.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Sat May 11, 2013 5:59 pm

Naval jelly is phosphoric acid you can find it in the hardware store it works good if you let it do its job, there is a product called evaporust that I have yet to try that is supposed to be good but its maker claims that its not a acid and is chemically mild so i dont know how it works or if it does a good job.
carlherrnstein
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: combustioneer model 77B
Coal Size/Type: pea stoker/Ohio bituminous

Re: Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Sat May 11, 2013 6:56 pm

Fire pot pattern will be fairly easy to make. I need to have the stove back together for fitting purposes before getting into that.

This is the product that I'm using, MSDS shows a very high% of Phosphoric acid. Lord only knows what the other stuff in it is.


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So far it has been working good.

Here is the heart of the Base burner. It is the lower chamber where the flue gases flow into and turn 180 degrees to exit the stove.
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I cleaned all of the mating surfaces of stove cement then sanded it to knock the large boogers off. I wasn't trying to sand off the rust, just trying to get it to be even over the entire surface. That way when treated with acid it would take on the same patina.

Image

Trial run with the acid turned the rust a nice black color.
Image
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sat May 11, 2013 7:12 pm

I found it was necessary to flip the fire pot upside down to get it out the door..... ;)
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Sat May 11, 2013 7:20 pm

Next was to fix these things. They go in the base on the inside corners of the base they separate the flue from the risers where air is allowed to flow thru the back of the stove for convection.
Image
The one was cracked in two places.
Because they are part of the flue chamber they need to be air tight so I don't DIE from carbon monoxide. Safety of myself and my family are of the utmost importance to me.
I saw the crack in the one piece while braking her down. I also thought that they were stamped steel and would be an easy fix, this is not the case. They are cast iron, in 1899 I'm not even sure they had the ability to stamp steel. Weren't model T fenders beat by hand over a wooden last?
Here it the one with the crack in it after I prepped it for brazing.
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Not my best braze ever, It was tough due to the thickness of the casting wanting to blow out. It did bond and the piece is now sealed and structural sound.

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Notice how every piece of this stove is marked with RB14. I guess it was to help out in the foundry 100 years ago. No need to guess what stove certain parts went to if you find one laying around.
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Sat May 11, 2013 7:34 pm

Next was the floor of the ash drawer and actual base/bottom of the stove. I did the same thing as the flue, sanded until it looked the same on both sides.
Image
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After a healthy application of elbow grease.
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I then took the bottom outside and gave it a good scrubbing with dish soap and a scotch brite pad. After doing this I placed it on the nickel base and dried it with a torch. My idea here is to keep cleaning and dry fitting til I reach the top. After that I can break it down and start applying finishes and sealants.

Here is how I left it today.

Image
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sun May 12, 2013 4:00 am

Nice pictures. When you make the pattern for the new fire pot, make sure you put in the bottom serrated teeth design in it. Just like the original.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

PostBy: dcrane On: Sun May 12, 2013 4:32 am

great stuff! I see new bolts laying their...what are you replacing all the bolts with exactly?, also what sealant are you going to use when doing the final assembly?
keep the pics coming :clap:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Sun May 12, 2013 8:47 am

wsherrick wrote:Nice pictures. When you make the pattern for the new fire pot, make sure you put in the bottom serrated teeth design in it. Just like the original.


When I get to the Fire pot it will be an exact copy of the original.
The whole plan is to first make the blank pot. Then I will mount it in the milling machine and cut each tooth with the correct size end mill. There will be a jig of sorts with an indexing stop on it to space the teeth evenly. The FP is the least of my worries at this point. Like I said I'm actually looking forward to making it. I have a 140mile round trip commute to work into and out of Philadelphia, during this time I dream up all kinds of crazy sh!t. Needless to say the FP will be well thought out before I get to it.

Doug the fasteners,
I picked up a pack of machine screws at the store for mock up purposes. They are SS 1/4"-20, 60 degree taper head (Phillips). Apparently the 60 degree countersink is something new to last century? I cleaned the holes with a std. countersink and am only touching the top of the holes. The purist in me had me dead set on using period correct fasteners for reassembly. There is however a reason no one is using slotted screws and square nuts anymore. It's because they are horrible. I found Brass screws too, they would add some contrast to the nickel if I polished them.

In the end I will probably be using SS fasteners that I polish, with modern hex nuts and flat washers. Some may feel it's sacrilegious, not me. I call it keeping up with the times.

Sealant,
I'm a carpenter, I want something in a caulk tube that's black. I did some looking last night and there are products available that meet that criteria. Due to all of the areas that need to be sealed running a bead is way cleaner for me than slopping some crap out of a bucket. If it cures black any squeeze out won't be nearly as unsightly.
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Found it !! My 'Royal Bride' restoration thread

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sun May 12, 2013 9:02 am

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the reason I am doing this is I DONT want to keep up with the times! :D

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it seems some times after 1900 some manufactures went round head.....

brown is 1909
blue is 1890

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bet thats how the bow-tie vs blue oval war started!!!!!! 8-)
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

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