Another coal sucker.....

Another coal sucker.....

PostBy: titleist1 On: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:40 pm

....is born! :punk:

This is coal vac Part Deux! All engineering credit goes to the powerful Wiz. His post a few weeks back showing his coal vac system using a shop vac inspired me to do the same. :notworthy:

The barrel I used is a poly 15 gallon barrel originally used for laundry detergent at a hospital. I did the same as Wiz, using a toilet flange screwed to the bottom with 3" PVC angled to the hopper on the stoker. I put an extra gate from my dust collection system in the shop on the 3" to close it off while running the vac. The coal stops feeding automatically when the coal in the hopper gets to that level.

I have the barrel sitting on a suspended frame of 2x4's hanging from the floor joists above. The barrel is translucent enough that you can see the coal as it fills up. That may change as the coal blackens the inside over time.

The top of the barrel had a 2" threaded female connection formed into it and a 2" threaded male PVC connector fit perfect. I connected two 90*'s to this threaded fitting and a 45* and taped the shop vac hose to that end.

For the other side I used a 2" street 45* and drilled the hole just big enough so the non-flange side fits into the barrel. The flange side catches on the hole and sits on the top of the barrel. A couple 45*'s heads it the right direction. For now I just have another 2" shop vac hose connected to it so I can suck the coal from the buckets I currently use.

The plan for next heating season is to have a coal bin sitting just on the other side of the basement window and run 2" pvc through a plywood "pane" into the bottom of the coal bin. I think the coal will flow much better with smooth 2" pvc rather than the corrugated shop vac hose. Also helping flow is that it will not have to go up like it does now.

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titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Another coal sucker.....

PostBy: Freddy On: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:49 am

Cool beans!

Now.... to hit reverse & suck the ashes out. ;)
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Another coal sucker.....

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:13 am

Nice t 1 :)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix


Re: Another coal sucker.....

PostBy: Wiz On: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:35 am

the coal will flow much better with smooth 2" pvc rather than the corrugated shop vac hose. Also helping flow is that it will not have to go up like it does now.


Good job. :)


you'll double feed rate once you switch over to 2'' pvc. I first used shop vac hose to test to see if it'll work. I had to add wire mesh to air inlet that goes into drum,sometimes it would suck coal into shopvac. Another change was to move feed tube to the side of the bucket, this also helped with feed rate by using one less elbow/ angle. Glad to see another person trying it! It beats shoveling and paying for auger setup. :D

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Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Another coal sucker.....

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:00 am

Wiz, the coal getting sucked into the shop vac, was that only when the level in the bucket got too high or anytime? I used a 45* in the barrel rather than a 90* and it seems to shoot the coal toward the bottom from what I can see through the barrel. That gets it far enough away from the vac port which is flush with the top of the barrel so it doesn't get sucked in there. Also I only filled to the 12 gallon mark which is about 10" from the top.

Next season, when switching to the pvc on the coal feed side and having the pipe angle downward from the outside bin rather than pulling up from the floor, I was wondering if the added velocity coming into the barrel will change how it works. I'll keep the mesh idea in my pocket as a possible solution if necessary.

I am going to screw some kind of flange to the top of the barrel on the coal inlet side to secure that 45* as it goes into the barrel. There is too much play in that fitting moving around the hole in the barrel. I tried caulking it, but that isn't strong enough as I move the vac hose from bucket to bucket.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Another coal sucker.....

PostBy: Wiz On: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:29 am

I am going to screw some kind of flange to the top of the barrel on the coal inlet side to secure that 45* as it goes into the barrel. There is too much play in that fitting moving around the hole in the barrel. I tried caulking it, but that isn't strong enough as I move the vac hose from bucket to bucket.


Do you just have 45* going in to the barrel loose then caulk it? What you need to do to fixes this... 2 pvc adapters and pvc pipe. dry fit first!!! you'll need to make pipe just long enough for both adapters and thickness of barrel. Here comes the fun part :P put adapter and pipe thru the toiler flange hole up to top of drum. now on the outside place the other adapter on pipe. This will create a snug fit for your feed tube. I recommend doing air intake the same way.. It's easier using bucket or drum with removable lids. Hope this helps.
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Another coal sucker.....

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:00 am

A removable lid would make this easy! This barrel doesn't have a removable lid, but was free since I have about 4 of them around here. From your description, I can't picture how you get the 45* or 90* on the inside of the barrel after the adapter feedthrough is in place.

On the coal feed side, since it is about 27" tall, I couldn't reach through the bottom opening initially to set the 45*. So I got the street 45* and fed it through the top. I am pretty sure I can find a 'toilet flange like' fitting that I can screw to the top of the barrel that will allow the flange of the 45* inside its round port. Then I can screw the 45* to that. If I can't find a flange, three short L brackets will do it.

The air intake side is taken care of securely since there is a 2" threaded fitting formed in the barrel. A 2" threaded PVC male adapter fits it perfectly.

Since I had the barrel, the shop vac and some 2" pvc laying around, so far I have all of $13.50 in pvc fittings invested in it. A little less $$$ than the harman hopper I saw in a thread on here recently!
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Another coal sucker.....

PostBy: Wiz On: Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:55 pm

I can't picture how you get the 45* or 90* on the inside of the barrel after the adapter feedthrough is in place


On inside of container place adapter with pipe up threw the hole. Once in place caulk the pvc pipe sticking out of container and attach elbow on. Cut pvc pipe enough to allow thickness of container. Image shows about 1/8 gap in between adapter and elbow, this allows room for thickness of container. Now elbow will be on the outside and adapter will be on the inside.creating a secured fit to container.

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Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Another coal sucker.....

PostBy: Dirty Steve On: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:55 am

Titlleist1,

Did your poly barrel hold up to the suction or did it collapse? I just got mine going this weekend. It collapsed even with the 1/2 inch pipe into the tip of the 2 inch suction pipe like Wiz showed on his plans. Trying to find a steel barrel. So far, can only find a new one full of grease for much more than I am wiling to pay.
Dirty Steve
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Oil- Off line
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA-6

Re: Another coal sucker.....

PostBy: Wiz On: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:24 am

No problem using plastic bucket. What I've change around this year was suction tube. Tube is 2 inch plastic flex that has smooth inside, this will allow me to move it around. Had problems with suction of buckwheat using pcv. Always looking to improve
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Another coal sucker.....

PostBy: Dirty Steve On: Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:21 pm

Wiz,

Wish you and I were close by. Cant stop my barrel from sucking in. Using white sched 40 pvc. 1.5 inch on suction side and 2 inch on the coal side. Barely getting any coal to move with a 6.5 horse shop vac. I put the 1/2 inch pvc to the bottom of the 2 inch coal side suction like your picture shows. Only thing different is the plastic barrel. The 2 inch side is 50 inches to the 45 degree turn and 9 feet to the furthest corner of the bin. Scratching head. My brother mentioned using some type of smooth flexible suction house from either Gemplers or a spray place called Dultmeier's. Where did you get the flexible vaccume hose?

Steve
Dirty Steve
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Oil- Off line
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA-6

Re: Another coal sucker.....

PostBy: titleist1 On: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:45 pm

I don't have a problem with the barrel i used collapsing from the suction. What I am using is an empty 15 gallon liquid laundry detergent barrel - 1/8" is my best guestimate on the thickness of the sides. Very sturdy barrel.

I was using the 2" flexible ribbed hose on both the vac and coal sides and it worked fine. I was pulling the rice coal from 5 gallon buckets sitting on the basement floor while the inlet to the barrel was near the basement ceiling. I just moved the hose on the coal side by hand to keep it from getting air locked since I didn't have the 1/2" bypass pipe on the flex hose. I expect to see improved performance when I get the 2" PVC with the 1/2" bypass on the coal side run to an outside bin that will be above the inlet to the indoor barrel.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Another coal sucker.....

PostBy: lsayre On: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:43 pm

15 gallon or 20 gallon fiber drums are so rigid they would never collapse.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: Another coal sucker.....

PostBy: Wiz On: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:22 pm

Dirty Steve wrote:Wiz,

Wish you and I were close by. Cant stop my barrel from sucking in. Using white sched 40 pvc. 1.5 inch on suction side and 2 inch on the coal side. Barely getting any coal to move with a 6.5 horse shop vac. I put the 1/2 inch pvc to the bottom of the 2 inch coal side suction like your picture shows. Only thing different is the plastic barrel. The 2 inch side is 50 inches to the 45 degree turn and 9 feet to the furthest corner of the bin. Scratching head. My brother mentioned using some type of smooth flexible suction house from either Gemplers or a spray place called Dultmeier's. Where did you get the flexible vaccume hose?

Steve


I message you... If barrel is collapsing you have plenty of suction to move coal. Coal tube needs 1/2 in bypass to keep system from air lock, without it vac will drawl to much coal an fill pipe solid. This creates the vac to pull all air out of drum and cause collapsing. Another possible issue is weight of coal pushing down on inlet of coal tube place in bin. This can be corrected in several ways . 1) don't bury pipe to deep into coal, add pipe sections when coal bin gets lower. 2) place 5 gallon bucket on coal bin floor, add several holes 3/4 the way up the bucket. Place coal tube near bottom of bucket, this should limit the amount of weight on tube. 3) Using a hose that has a smooth inside and vac coal from the top. I got hose from work.
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Another coal sucker.....

PostBy: Dirty Steve On: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:13 am

Plastic barrel is not agreeing with 6.5 horse shop vac. Got a steel barrel on the way. Wiz if giving pointers also. Rice coal from last season. Dry and only a foot deep to floor.
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Dirty Steve
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Oil- Off line
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA-6