Charter Oak #24 - Can This Burn Coal ?
- Buck47
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- Location: Allamakee County, N.E. Iowa
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: "Artistic" Universal # 360, Carter Oak #24, Locke120, Monarch cook stove, Home Corral #16 base burner
- Coal Size/Type: Nut : Blaschak
Hello everyone, this is my first post, I'm new to the forum and have a few questions.
I have a Charter Oak Air Tight #24 stove - I've used for ten years burning wood. Thanks to Amish neighbors I now have a local supply of coal. ( Blaschal - Anthracite - Nut coal)
Question: Is this stove a coal burner?
Is this design to be used without firebrick or some type of additional liner?
I have included a photo of the interior. BTW: I have the grates, they are removed for cleaning / maintenance prior to use for the season.
Do any of the members have a history of using this style of stove burning coal. Any information would be most welcome.
Regards: john AKA: Buck47
I have a Charter Oak Air Tight #24 stove - I've used for ten years burning wood. Thanks to Amish neighbors I now have a local supply of coal. ( Blaschal - Anthracite - Nut coal)
Question: Is this stove a coal burner?
Is this design to be used without firebrick or some type of additional liner?
I have included a photo of the interior. BTW: I have the grates, they are removed for cleaning / maintenance prior to use for the season.
Do any of the members have a history of using this style of stove burning coal. Any information would be most welcome.
Regards: john AKA: Buck47
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- McGiever
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- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Welcome to NEPA Crossroads
I'll leave this for others here so you get better details.
I'll leave this for others here so you get better details.
- wsherrick
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- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
- Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size
Your stove is specifically designed to burn coal. It was never intended for use as a wood stove. It will burn Anthracite well.
I would first line the fire pot with some refractory cement. It's cheap and easy and afterward the fire pot will never warp or burn out.
I would also send the grate out to a foundry to be copied. That grate would be hard to replace. A copy would not be very expensive to have made and then you would have the original as master.
Make sure the seams of the stove are all well sealed and tight. This is just routine maintenance which should be done on every stove.
Rest assured, you have never seen the actual potential heating ability of this stove ever produced since you've never burned coal in it.
It will be a totally different animal.
It will give you much more reliable, consistent temperatures over a much, much longer range of time than it ever could burning wood.
I would first line the fire pot with some refractory cement. It's cheap and easy and afterward the fire pot will never warp or burn out.
I would also send the grate out to a foundry to be copied. That grate would be hard to replace. A copy would not be very expensive to have made and then you would have the original as master.
Make sure the seams of the stove are all well sealed and tight. This is just routine maintenance which should be done on every stove.
Rest assured, you have never seen the actual potential heating ability of this stove ever produced since you've never burned coal in it.
It will be a totally different animal.
It will give you much more reliable, consistent temperatures over a much, much longer range of time than it ever could burning wood.
- Buck47
- Member
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Thu. Sep. 18, 2014 12:01 am
- Location: Allamakee County, N.E. Iowa
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: "Artistic" Universal # 360, Carter Oak #24, Locke120, Monarch cook stove, Home Corral #16 base burner
- Coal Size/Type: Nut : Blaschak
Thanks wsherrick,
That's good to know this stove is designed to burn coal. I've always like the look of this stove and the size fits the room it's in.
First the grate is not the original grate, what's laying on the floor in front of the stove is a make shift grate I used burning wood. I kept what's left of the original grates but they where distorted and melted in half when I got the stove. I'll need to have a machine shop fabricate something more usable with coal, and start a hunt for replacements from another stove.
Will I need to disassemble the stove to apply refractory cement to the bottom half of the fire pot?
And how does one apply cement to a bowl shape fire pot?
Can it be slathered on by hand to an estimated thickness or does a form need to be constructed? Do allowances need to be made for expansion, so as not to damage the cast fire pot?
Please advise as to procedure in applying refractory cement properly to this shape fire pot.
Thanks for your comments, I'm looking forward to heating with coal, and enjoying the benefits you talked about.
Regards:
That's good to know this stove is designed to burn coal. I've always like the look of this stove and the size fits the room it's in.
First the grate is not the original grate, what's laying on the floor in front of the stove is a make shift grate I used burning wood. I kept what's left of the original grates but they where distorted and melted in half when I got the stove. I'll need to have a machine shop fabricate something more usable with coal, and start a hunt for replacements from another stove.
Will I need to disassemble the stove to apply refractory cement to the bottom half of the fire pot?
And how does one apply cement to a bowl shape fire pot?
Can it be slathered on by hand to an estimated thickness or does a form need to be constructed? Do allowances need to be made for expansion, so as not to damage the cast fire pot?
Please advise as to procedure in applying refractory cement properly to this shape fire pot.
Thanks for your comments, I'm looking forward to heating with coal, and enjoying the benefits you talked about.
Regards:
- wsherrick
- Member
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: Wed. Jun. 18, 2008 6:04 am
- Location: High In The Poconos
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
- Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size
Can you show us a picture of the original grates. Perhaps there are replacements available or something that might work. You must have the ability to shake the grates to burn coal at all.
If this stove has a common style of grate then it shouldn't be too hard to find a replacement.
If this stove has a common style of grate then it shouldn't be too hard to find a replacement.
- Buck47
- Member
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Thu. Sep. 18, 2014 12:01 am
- Location: Allamakee County, N.E. Iowa
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: "Artistic" Universal # 360, Carter Oak #24, Locke120, Monarch cook stove, Home Corral #16 base burner
- Coal Size/Type: Nut : Blaschak
Hi wsherrick:
Here are photos of the original grates. As you can see they where unusable so I fashioned a grate system that worked well when wood burning. I don't see how the original grates can be duplicated in the poor condition they are in. However it should be possible to fabricate a simpler design ( a slider or shaker style) and incorporate that into the stove.
The best way to go would be to find original replacements and have them duplicated in a foundry. It will take time to locate are stove to be cannibalized or a pair I could purchase outright.
What I don't know how to do is reline the fire pot with refractory cement. The shape is like a bowl and that seams to present problems casting that shape, unless one can simply smear the cement on by hand and smooth out as best as one can. I don't know what is required. Can you or others advise as to how I go about relining the fire pot?
Regards: john AKA: Buck47
Here are photos of the original grates. As you can see they where unusable so I fashioned a grate system that worked well when wood burning. I don't see how the original grates can be duplicated in the poor condition they are in. However it should be possible to fabricate a simpler design ( a slider or shaker style) and incorporate that into the stove.
The best way to go would be to find original replacements and have them duplicated in a foundry. It will take time to locate are stove to be cannibalized or a pair I could purchase outright.
What I don't know how to do is reline the fire pot with refractory cement. The shape is like a bowl and that seams to present problems casting that shape, unless one can simply smear the cement on by hand and smooth out as best as one can. I don't know what is required. Can you or others advise as to how I go about relining the fire pot?
Regards: john AKA: Buck47
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- Sunny Boy
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- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
You could try contacting Woodman's Parts and give them pictures and measurements of your original grates and the frame that the grates fit into. They may have a pair of triangular grates (aka triplex, or prism grates) that would work.
Hint, it helps if you also put an opened tape measure next to the parts in the pictures.
The triangular grates are a very strong design, and they work very well with coal.
http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/4863/Grates.html
Paul
Hint, it helps if you also put an opened tape measure next to the parts in the pictures.
The triangular grates are a very strong design, and they work very well with coal.
http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/4863/Grates.html
Paul
- Photog200
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- Location: Fulton, NY
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- Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
- Other Heating: Electric Baseboard
There are a couple of different ways you can line the firepot. Some on here have used the pourable refractory material and formed a mold with something round like a bucket or sonotube. The other method, which is the one I used, it comes in a block and resembles clay with particles in it. You take a hunk of it and pound it into place with a rubber mallet. Then keep doing that until you get the desired thickness. Try to get it as smooth as possible so that the coal bed will slide down it without to much resistance. When you get it the desired thickness, I took a wet sponge and went over the surface to make it as smooth as possible. Let the liner set over night to start to cure, then light very small fires in it to finish the curing process. The brand of material I used was Plibrico "Super F". There are other brands out there and can usually be purchased at a boiler supply company.
Randy
Randy
- Sunny Boy
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- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
What Randy said,
That type is referred to as "ramming" refractory cement. http://www.vitcas.com/plastic-mouldable-rams-refractories
They come premixed like bread dough and almost as sticky. You cut chunks, roll them out to about an inch thick with a rolling pin, cut them into sections to fit the pot, then lightly hammer them into place with a rubber mallet.
And as Randy pointed out, you want the surface to be as smooth as possible so that coal is less likely to stick to it when it gets hot. You can smooth it by hand, or with small hand rollers (printers brayers) that they sell at art supply stores.
The brand I got from a boiler parts house in Utica was Uni-ram. http://www.refractoriesinstitute.org/productdirec ... nited1.htm
Works like what Randy described, just a different manufacturer. Because of the way my range's grates and frame has to come out for service/repair, I decided to cast removable bricks instead.
Paul
That type is referred to as "ramming" refractory cement. http://www.vitcas.com/plastic-mouldable-rams-refractories
They come premixed like bread dough and almost as sticky. You cut chunks, roll them out to about an inch thick with a rolling pin, cut them into sections to fit the pot, then lightly hammer them into place with a rubber mallet.
And as Randy pointed out, you want the surface to be as smooth as possible so that coal is less likely to stick to it when it gets hot. You can smooth it by hand, or with small hand rollers (printers brayers) that they sell at art supply stores.
The brand I got from a boiler parts house in Utica was Uni-ram. http://www.refractoriesinstitute.org/productdirec ... nited1.htm
Works like what Randy described, just a different manufacturer. Because of the way my range's grates and frame has to come out for service/repair, I decided to cast removable bricks instead.
Paul
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Offer him $50 and that must include delivery. It he thinks they are so valuable tell him you have a special on yours this week for $1500. Nobody is buying coal stoves in Lake City Florida where is is hotter than hell right now so a deal to borrow his grates to copy like we did with our Glenwood magazine.
Offer him $50 and that must include delivery. It he thinks they are so valuable tell him you have a special on yours this week for $1500. Nobody is buying coal stoves in Lake City Florida where is is hotter than hell right now so a deal to borrow his grates to copy like we did with our Glenwood magazine.
- Buck47
- Member
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Thu. Sep. 18, 2014 12:01 am
- Location: Allamakee County, N.E. Iowa
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: "Artistic" Universal # 360, Carter Oak #24, Locke120, Monarch cook stove, Home Corral #16 base burner
- Coal Size/Type: Nut : Blaschak
Thanks to all who responded. Your rapid response and the quality and detailed information is much appreciated.
I disassembled the stove today, and the fire box looks less intimidating, the "ramming" refractory cement should work well. I'm sure I'll have more questions when the time comes.
This weekend I will measure and photograph the details of the grates and send that off to Woodsman Parts Plus and see if they can match what I need for replacements.
I was amazed at the quality and beauty of the design of this stove. Remarkable engineering. My "Type A" personality is working overtime, what a fun project.
Thanks for the warm welcome and personal help you have all extended to me. I'm going to enjoy getting to know each of you in the future. Thanks again.
Best Regards: john
I disassembled the stove today, and the fire box looks less intimidating, the "ramming" refractory cement should work well. I'm sure I'll have more questions when the time comes.
This weekend I will measure and photograph the details of the grates and send that off to Woodsman Parts Plus and see if they can match what I need for replacements.
I was amazed at the quality and beauty of the design of this stove. Remarkable engineering. My "Type A" personality is working overtime, what a fun project.
Thanks for the warm welcome and personal help you have all extended to me. I'm going to enjoy getting to know each of you in the future. Thanks again.
Best Regards: john
- Buck47
- Member
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Thu. Sep. 18, 2014 12:01 am
- Location: Allamakee County, N.E. Iowa
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: "Artistic" Universal # 360, Carter Oak #24, Locke120, Monarch cook stove, Home Corral #16 base burner
- Coal Size/Type: Nut : Blaschak
Woodman's parts plus has "Duplex grates" I believe can be make to work. The 318-SG is the same dimension as my old grate - However the ends are different configurations.
So here's what I'm thinking, - order two 318-SG have the local machine shop cut off and fit the center piece to the original end pieces. Check for fit and function, and use these two new manufactured parts as patterns to have new complete units cast.
This way I can be sure of function before having new parts cast and I will retain a pattern for future castings.
Thought I would run this idea past the forum for comment to check for flaws in my plan before ordering parts from Woodman's next week.
Thanks in advance. Regards John
So here's what I'm thinking, - order two 318-SG have the local machine shop cut off and fit the center piece to the original end pieces. Check for fit and function, and use these two new manufactured parts as patterns to have new complete units cast.
This way I can be sure of function before having new parts cast and I will retain a pattern for future castings.
Thought I would run this idea past the forum for comment to check for flaws in my plan before ordering parts from Woodman's next week.
Thanks in advance. Regards John
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- Sunny Boy
- Member
- Posts: 25567
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Might be made to work, if the ones from Woodman's are wide enough and long enough so that coal chunks aren't likely to get stuck between grate and firepot lining. Nor so large that they hit a pot lining either.
One suggestion. I think you have your old grates in wrong. Swap your grates left for right so that when the gear teeth mesh in between them, the grate surfaces with the long slots are facing up and forming a flatter surface for the coal to rest on.
Paul
One suggestion. I think you have your old grates in wrong. Swap your grates left for right so that when the gear teeth mesh in between them, the grate surfaces with the long slots are facing up and forming a flatter surface for the coal to rest on.
Paul