Steam Tractor

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ntp71
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Post by ntp71 » Wed. Sep. 24, 2014 6:53 am

Hello All,

Occasionally I browse the Internet for things of interest. I have an idea of buying a steam coal furnace and turning a steam engine with it, then have that turn a generator. So in my search for the impossible I come across pieces that I need to put together to make my crazy idea a reality. This one may be out of my price range so I thought I would share it.

http://ashtabula.craigslist.org/grd/4670762517.html

Neal

 
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Post by oros35 » Wed. Sep. 24, 2014 10:52 am

I would love to have a steam tractor. Problem is the cost. Very small starter tractor that is complete, running, and certified, starts at $30K. You could get into it with a pile of parts in the range of $10-15K. Then spend another $10-30K to get it together.
An average big tractor goes from $60K+. I've seen real nice ones at auction well over $100K.
There was just an un-certified boiler, no engine, that sold at auction for $10K. All you got was a fire box and heat exchanger that you couldn't use as is.

Out of my price range!

(and why are they so expensive? My guess is parts availability and the cost to re-make 1 off parts, plus the cost to refurbish a boiler of that size. Everything on them is big and heavy. )

 
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Post by carlherrnstein » Wed. Sep. 24, 2014 5:42 pm

Why a steam traction engine?

If you want a steam generator you might want to start with a small stationery engine.

 
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Post by ntp71 » Wed. Sep. 24, 2014 6:38 pm

carlherrnstein wrote:Why a steam traction engine?

If you want a steam generator you might want to start with a small stationery engine.
You are right...I am still learning...didnt realize it was that easy. I found a few videos as I searched Youtube today.....I search the term " steam motor"..I have tried other search terms but that one returned the best results


 
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Post by carlherrnstein » Wed. Sep. 24, 2014 6:57 pm

To me the scariest thing about a steam engine is the boiler. I also have looked into building a boiler an engine. I think if I ever do I will build a engine that uses a monotube flash boiler because the amount of steam at any one time is very small and the water is boiled as it is needed.

 
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Post by coalnewbie » Wed. Sep. 24, 2014 7:08 pm

Occasionally I browse the Internet for things of interest. I have an idea of buying a steam coal furnace and turning a steam engine with it, then have that turn a generator. So in my search for the impossible I come across pieces that I need to put together to make my crazy idea a reality.
Well stay in PA as I think once you get above 10psi in NY you need a high pressure steam license or something insane. Buy a Walking Beam 38' x 15' steam engine boat the Hiawatha (Tulane Princess) that I have posted on before. Ed Morris is the owner and the boat is still parked in Bay City MI, you should still be able to find his phone number. Youtube has videos. He did want $38000 on Ebay some years ago, however, right now I think he would swop it for a iphone 6. It even comes with it's own engineer. Alcohol dulls the stupidity factor and with time you settle for a base burner or two, so drink up.

 
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Post by franco b » Wed. Sep. 24, 2014 7:09 pm

Steam can get very dangerous in a hurry.

For efficiency you need probably 100 pounds of pressure, not the 15 pounds of domestic boilers.

Study the boilers of steam cars for pretty good efficiency with maximum safety. The boilers hold minimum water which prevents catastrophe.

 
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Post by DePippo79 » Thu. Sep. 25, 2014 5:13 am

Hey Neal. I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking about building a steam generator. I was thinking about starting with one of these though. Take care. Matt



 
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Post by coaledsweat » Thu. Sep. 25, 2014 7:15 am

carlherrnstein wrote:To me the scariest thing about a steam engine is the boiler. I also have looked into building a boiler an engine. I think if I ever do I will build a engine that uses a monotube flash boiler because the amount of steam at any one time is very small and the water is boiled as it is needed.
The Doble used a flash steam boiler and was arguably one of the best steam cars made. As I understand it, it was ready to drive within a minute of light up.

 
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Post by Vampiro » Sun. Sep. 28, 2014 3:05 am

There is much more to "I want a boiler and steam generator". :D

Safety is number one. Ensure your boiler is hydro tested to 1 1/2 times the design pressure. After such time, annual inspections are to be conducted at 25% over Maximum Allowable Working pressure. Doing a 1 1/2 hydro every year could damage the boiler. If your MAWP for the boiler is 100 PSIG, then the hydro would be conducted at 125 PSIG. The boiler must be sized for the work it will do, and you can design it to operate at 20-50% overload capacity if you wish. Ensure there are gauge glasses installed that will withstand the pressure, along with the piping and fittings.

Steam turbines spin at high speeds. If there is a turbine failure, the blades can fly right through a turbine casing, and go through the wall/ceiling too.

Are you going to use a reciprocating steam engine, or a steam turbine. If you are using a steam turbine, will it be saturated (needs a moisture separator), or use superheated steam? Of course if it is the latter, you will need a superheater in your boiler.

With a reciprocating engine, you will need a grease separator where the steam is exhausted. Will you utilize a condenser? Or will you utilize the exhaust steam for other purposes.

If you are going to get a larger model boiler, such as the one in that awesome video you linked to, you can utilize a boiler and generator to also heat your home. I don't know if you have hot water, steam, or hot air. If you have steam, this setup would be all the more awesome. You can combine direct radiation and also install a multivane blower, providing heated air through some registers.

Suppose you have the aforementioned steam setup. You would need pressure reducing valves for the exhaust steam as it will be still far too high to send to your radiators. Locating the pressure reducing valve after the grease extractor is ideal, as just in case there is some oil droplets being carried with the steam, they will not foul up the pressure reducing valve and cause it to malfunction. It would probably be a manually adjusted PRV, as I don't know if you want to install an air compressor and storage tanks to operate automatic regulators, and set up a control board with air operated switches controlling each register that the blower is providing heated air to......or have them operate electrically even.

Your steam engine or turbine would turn a generator, the generator would charge batteries (don't forget an inverter) and therefore supply the bus with electricity. When you are not generating, the ABT would switch to the line side of the incoming power. The exhaust steam would go through the pressure reducing valve to the heat exchanger inside the blower, which would run and send heated air to the registers. The blower requires steam to enter the steam coils that would be located inside the casing. You can set it up based upon temperature limit switches, so when the system is running, and there is a demand for heat, it will only send heated air through the registers, and will not run the blower and supply cold air to the building. There should also be a solenoid for the steam admission to the blower, as when off line, or not needed, steam is not continually fed through the heat exchanger where the heat would radiate through the registers and provide unneeded heat. Now remember, you could also use the exhaust steam to heat hot water as well. It makes all the sense to utilize this steam. Preheat your feedwater with it, or a boiler economizer, but the boiler economizer might reduce draft some.....but....we could get around that. You could also make your blower couple to a steam engine as well. You could even set it up where you choose either the electric motor, or steam engine to drive the blower. This would require a removable coupling on both.

If you have a hydronic system, the exhaust steam from the generator could go through a shell and tube indirect contact heat exchanger to heat the water for the system whenever it is needed. You could also pump boiler water, but it's better to utilize the exhaust steam, as you would burn less fuel instead of robbing the water the boiler is attempting to boil.

You should make your boiler (if you are going with a locomotive type boiler) a return tubular boiler for the most efficiency. Toward the back of the boiler, there will be access doors. Right where the flue gasses make the turnaround, you can put in a tubular feedwater heater (economizer), and this will further heat the water going into the boiler and increase efficiency.

If you choose a brick set HRT, then you could locate a superheater by the bridge wall. Just remember to have superheater drains installed and maintain a flow through the superheater when starting up the boiler. If not, you will damage it.

Ensure all your equipment is equipped with high and low pressure drains. On the high pressure drains, there would be steam traps, that would continually expel condensate, and return them to your return tank/heater and then back to the boiler feed pipe. The LP drains would go into funnels and go back through the LP drain header to the tank as well, or create a separate tank with a float operated pump to send it back to the return tank / heater.

These are just some ideas, and some of the things needed to complete your goal. Do this at your own risk, as there is no warranty, guarantee expressed or implied.

Wish you all the best. :D

 
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Post by confedsailor » Sun. Sep. 28, 2014 9:31 am

A CHP system would be the best way to get the maximum bang for your BTU buck. And if you wanted to really put something impressive together, a LiBr chiller plant could give you air conditioning with your exhaust steam during the summer. All in all, the thermal efficiency to electricity of a small unit is very low, painfully low, like 15% low. So finding other ways to use up the "waste" BTU's would make the difference between a novelty and something useful.

Vampiro touched briefly on it, but maintaining a steam plant that runs full time is a job unto itself. Then you have the fun and games of boiler chemistry, god help you if you've hard water. You add TSP to make soft sludge that you can remove with a chisel, vice hard scale that you have to use dynamite on. Chasing air leaks in your condensate system to keep the O2 out the boiler...Whee... been there, done that, got the uniforms...

Don't get me wrong, I love steam engines. I'm going to build me a steamboat one day, but having one that runs day in day out...I got out the nuclear world to get away from that.

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